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Incognitus et al

Just to clarify, Joe's reference was to the EC's usage of the phrase in 1996 - not to a new usage of it.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Neil,

It is still very offensive and the EP should know better.

What is especially shocking to us in the Eastern Canadian Eparchy is the way the EP has often extended a hand of "friendship" to us here and to our Bishop, Vladyka Isidore in particular over the years.

(Vladyka Isidore visited the EP years back and was warmly welcomed by His All-Holiness etc.).

Alex

Alex,

I don't disagree - I was merely clarifying "when" this was said by the EP. Responses here (particularly that by Incognitus) suggested that folks thought this was a new pronouncement by the EP - perhaps in direct response to the UGCC issue - failing to notice that Joe had quoted the EP's St Andrew's Day statement from 1996.

Many years,

Neil

I just want to know why he is referred to as "Bartholomew the First." I mean, isn't that a little haughty - - - how do you know a future EP will take the name of Bartholomew also? I've never heard of anyone being called "the First" before there was a "the Second."

Hmmmm!!! Something to think about!

Logos Teen

Dear Teen:

Perhaps His All-Holiness thinks he's "Bartholomew the First Called"

No, that can't happen. Andrew is the first called.


Perhaps His All-Holiness thinks he's "Bartholomew the First among the Apostles"

No, that can't happen. Peter is the first among the Apostles.


Perhaps His All-Holiness thinks he's "Bartholomew the First and the Last"

No, that can't happen. Jesus is the First and the Last.


Perhaps His All-Holiness thinks he's "Bartholomew the First in line to take a good ukrainian cake in the face after Alexy II by the Ukriates"?


No, that can't happen. The Ukriates are nice Christians and don't go around throwing cakes at peoples faces, but then again...


To Orthodox members of this board, this post is a light hearted Christian poke at the EP. Don't mean to offend, I really do love His All-Holiness the EP despite not agreeing with everything he says.

Say Alex, do Ukrainians make good cakes?

God bless,

Rony

Dear Rony,

Ukrainians make SUCH good cakes that when any of them go into the practice of law, they specialize in "TORT" law . . .

I fear that Bartholomew may end up not as "the First," but as "Bartholomew the Worst!"

Alex

What about Jesus? He is called Mary's "first-born son" (like in Luke 2:7), and we don't believe she had any other children!

"The first" might also mean "the only" in the long run.

Dave

I had a long talk with the head of customer service at the local bank (major one in New England). She's a Greek American who came to this country 30 years ago. She gave me an incredible deal on my mortgage so she must really like me.

She said that the USA church IS the global financial powerhouse for the Greek Orthodox. Also, she stated that the Greek Orthodox Archbishop of Athens has become to many the new Patriarch of their Church.

I explained to her the overstatus of the UGCC and the problem we have with Bart in regards to the position he with the establishment of a Patriarchate in Ukraine. Without blinking an eye she said "it's money, Bartholmew wants money and will go to however will give him some". I was a bit startled that a Greek Orthodox women would be so open.

I asked her how it would be best to better educate the Greek Orthodox membership about the problems we are having vis a vis the Russian Orthodox. To make a long story short, she will introduce me (and members of the local UGCC patriarchal group) to Boston Greek Orthodox adherants who may be able to help. They like to have speakers at their churches who can provide them with a interesting speakers. It sounds to me like there are a lot of Greeks who are unhappy with Bart.

I should be hearing from her in the next two weeks, and will keep you guys informed as to a good local approarch to better educating your local Greek Orthodox Church about the UGCC.

Hritzko

Dear Hritzko,

Certainly, Orthodox patriarchs have historically been dependent on Moscow for money, especially during the days of the Turkish Yoke.

Theophane of Jerusalem (venerated as a local New Martyr there and his icon is in the book on St Josaphat) went to Russia to collect alms and, on his way back, stopped to scold the Ukrainian Kozaks for fighting them, ordering them never to raise a hand against Orthodox soldiers again.

Orthodox patriarchs also wrote to the Kozaks to stop eating kolbassa as this was actually a pagan ritual meat in honour of the forest boar-god the Central Europeans once worshipped . . .

But the Kozaks never listened to them . . . What is a Ukrainian without kolbassa?

I hope our people today can manifest an equal toughness on a much more important matter . . .

Alex

Logos Teen is correct; it is an illiteracy to style oneself, or allow others to style one, Bartholomew the First, or Juan Carlos the First (he's otherwise an admirable man) or even Joseph the First. In the latter case it was quite inaccurate into the bargain; some loony (not the Patriarch himself) came up with the weird idea that the Patriarchal title made him the fountain of a new line of whatever, instead of the lawful successor of previous Chief Hierarchs of the same Church.
Bartholomew, however, is a special case in one sense. The way things are going in Turkey, he could well end up as Bartholomew the Last.
Incognitus

Alex...these were not the patriarchs that were FREEMASONS, were they :p

Now listening to the Ukrainian Bandurist Chorus singing "God Grant Thee Many Years-- Mnohaya Lita". The proclamation is given asking God to grant kobzars (bandura minstrels), the Ukrainian nation, and all God-fearing people, "many years" (mnohaya lita!) < From their disc

Dear Gaudior,

I thought that Free Masons are those that will fix the front steps of the church - for free . . .

Or that, to some modern Catholics, the Rosary is a devotion that seems to last for five decades . . .

Alex

lol. Good one.

God bless,

Rony

Dear Rony,

At least YOU appreciate my humour!

God bless you too!

Alex