www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization The Customs of Greeting: Making Visitors Welcome

I think the real issue here is that this is a Western Christian oriented country, and after 100+ years of Eastern Christian presence, nobody still knows who we are, and if they do, they don't care. I have probably given up two years of my life trying to explain the East to Westerners who just don't care about anything other than the Roman rite or the Protestant churches. After all, they were here before us!

I don't know what the answer is, but I hope the Eastern church survives here at least until my Panihida is sung.

Слава Ісусу Христу!

OK I didn’t understand. What suggestions for change do you suggest? Eliminating arrogance, fine but many rise to a position of influence and have NO finesse in leadership. This problem transcend ethnicity and affiliation as it is a common human frailty.

In 18c Galicia the ONLY educated person in a community was often the parish priest. He was called on not only as a minister but also an attorney and sometimes a physician. In 20c Pittsburgh one Dean confided in me that if the bishop gave him a couple dozen parishes to monitor 23 of them would be headed by a leader who possessed papal infallibility in all aspects. He did not confide in my which parish was not so blessed. In our 21c we have congregations consisting of architects, barristers, chefs, doctors, educators, financiers, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. The only aid many parish leaders accept are from cooks, janitors or secretaries and not often in an advisory position. Pray, pay and obey without expectation of accessibility or accountability.

Is this what we are talking about? Please advise.

Dear All,

When do we get rid of our ethnicities (forgive my changing that to the plural, but we are not all of the same ethnicity)? If things are allowed to happen naturally, instead of by force, ethnicity in the USA is not likely to disappear in a hurry, and should not do so unless people decide spontaneously that they wish to get rid of their particular ethnicities.

My only request to people who (like myself) find it good to maintain specific ethnic identities is that they should make this real, and of greater import than plunking a balalaika, using a few token words of some language, or eating one or two token tidbits on a few occasions.

So what can one do?
Learn whatever your ancestral language is. It takes effort, but it can be done - and you can the pass this language on to your children. They will find this a nuisance - until they discover that in today's world, knowledge of an additional language is an asset.

Visit your ancestral homeland - and not just for tourism. Take stock of what is needed, and what you might be able to do about it.

Study the history of your community, both in your ancestral homeland and in the emigration - be watchful for propaganda tracts.

Take into account your own professional qualifications, and ask yourself what that would enable you to do for your ancestral homeland and community.

Those are just a few possibilities. Here's a hint: Transcarpathia is a stunningly beautiful place.

Dear Mykhayl:

Authentic qualifications (however achieved) probably enable parishioners to make serious, multi-faceted contributions (I'm not referring to money!) to the life of their parish.

However, such people are often overworked already and wish to come to Church to pray and spiritually recharge, not to get involved in church administration (which is either a deadly bore or an exasperating series of never-ending battles over trivia - ever hear that satire of the parish council meeting discussing the new doorknob?).

The people who too often are attracted to such structures as parish councils are those who for a whole variety of reasons feel frustrated and find causing trouble in their parishes an outlet for the frustration. I suggest an excellent book called Clergy Killers. You probably won't like it, but it offers a great deal of spot-on analysis.

Fr. Serge

Слава Ісусу Христу!

Reverend Father,

Thank you for the direction. I may find it of interest, if the shoe fits on the other foot.

Mykhayl
]
BOOK REVIEW:

http://www.alban.org/conversation.aspx?id=4250

WHICH STATES IN PART:

“a wake-up call to a church in denial. Jesus didn’t come to call people names or assess blame, yet on many occasions he had to confront opposing religious leaders and even members of his own inner circle.”

“… the title can be a real danger. We have discovered that it provides some clergy who have been inept, antagonistic themselves, or otherwise at fault, a handy scapegoat.”

BOOK ORDER

http://www.amazon.com/Clergy-Killers-Guidance-Pastors-Congregations/dp/0664257534

Thanks, first of all, for taking my suggestion on Rediger's book seriously. I've read through the link you gave with real interest. However, the quote you chose from the link;


worries me. I've worked - and am working now - at the coalface, trying to serve as a parish priest. I've also worked for many years as a bishop's secretary, trying to deal with some of these problems.

Of course there are such people as inept clergy, antagonistic clergy, or otherwise clergy who are in the wrong vocation. Notice Rediger's chapter on "Killer Clergy"; you'll find that he doesn't ignore this aspect of the whole discussion.

HOWEVER: try this simple acid test on almost any bishop or equivalent administrator in whatever denomination:

a) find a priest or pastor who has served in five successive parishes and destroyed all five. Will this cleric automatically be given a sixth parish to destroy?

b) find a parish which has destroyed five successive clergy. Will this parish be given a sixth cleric to destroy?

In situation a, the bishop or equivalent administrator will have little difficulty realizing that enough is too much, and will encourage the destructive cleric to pursue some other method of earning a living and leading a busy life.

In situation b, the bishop or equivalent administrator will readily provide the killers in the parish with a sixth cleric to massacre. It happens every day. I could easily name two such parishes (one Orthodox, one Greek-Catholic) where this is precisely what has happened.


Understand me: I am not suggesting that the clergy should be treated like rare human orchids! But it is time to wake up, smell the incense, and realize that we had better investigate the causes of the "clergy shortage", one of which is that we are inclined to allow the clergy killers to run wild. I have known good priests, some of whom are close friends, who simply packed their bags and got out when they saw what was going on. They were perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves for God, the Gospel, and the Church, but they were not about to volunteer to be treated in the ways which Rediger describes only too accurately.

I also remember a case which was and is unbelievable - the poor parish was supplied both with a killer cleric and with clergy killers! It all began with a quite undesirable cleric, who conspired with personal friends in power positions in the parish to get rid of the previous pastor. Against his own better judgement, the bishop finally allowed the cleric to become the pastor, on the repeated insistence of the parish "committee" (a committee is the only known form of animal life with nine stomachs and no brain).

What followed was bound to follow. In a relatively short time the new pastor and his former friends in the parish were at each other's throats - almost literally - and the pastor successfully fought off all efforts at mediation and help. The committee, meanwhile, kept begging the bishop to remove the pastor, but did not seem to have grasped the point that since the bishop had been right in the first place, maybe they should trust the bishop to assign a suitable cleric the next time around. Their idea was to bring yet another cleric of their own choice from the parish's original country - in other words, someone whom they could intimidate and control. The incumbent, meanwhile, took every effort by the Dean or the bishop to calm the situation as a potential basis for civil litigation. He managed to gather enough money to live on by renting out the parish hall to people having no connection with the parish, and keeping the rent as his "salary". Lovely. He also kept demanding that the bishop should remove the parish committee.

The bishop sent the same letter to both sides in the parish, reminding the cleric that he had intrigued shamelessly to obtain the parish, and reminding the committee that they had overstepped their authority in the first place by insisting that the bishop acquiesce in assigning this particular cleric. The bishop concluded with an unforgettable, pithy summation:

"You wanted each other; very well. You have each other. I wish you joy of the combination!"

It soon stopped being a question of "who was right" and "who was wrong". Nobody was right, and the entire situation was wrong. But short of walking in with a machine gun and using it, there was little the bishop could do.

The original pastor of this parish found himself a teaching job, where life is at least somewhat less likely to put him in an early grave.


Now: I have in my own work paid considerable attention to the "clergy shortage" and its causes and effects. It is an open secret that one of our jurisdictions in America is especially vulnerable in this area; the shortage is so severe that priests who are well past retirement age must continue to try to shepherd parishes, because there is simply no one to replace them. So again, we must all wake up and smell the incense. The days of some sort of reserve army of unemployed clergy are over, and are not likely to return.

I have also spoken with a good number of older clergy, and was several times discouraged and surprised to find a deep-seated bitterness, which results in these clergy doing their best to discourage any young man who expresses an interest in entering a seminary. This happens often enough to require serious investigation and consideration: keep in mind that in most cases the two most important people in encouraging a young man to pursue a vocation to the priesthood are his mother and the priest to whom he is close.

I wouldn't mind discussing how to encourage both vocations and existing clergy, but that's a lengthy matter and it's already after midnight.

Fr. Serge

Slava Isusu Christu!

I am very sorry to hear of your experience. I belong to a very small and simple parish of the OCA. Strangers are noticed and welcomed immediately by the priest and the parishioners. Every week someone from the parish hosts a brunch after Divine Liturgy and all newcomers are "badgered" to join us.

We eat well and enjoy eachother's company every week. For the record, I am part Italian and part German--but I have adopted the Slavic tradition as my own--I love it! A good part of our Divine Liturgy is in Church Slavonic and I love to hear and learn it.

My two cents.

Recluse--you are tempting me! I don't know where in Pennsylvania you are located, but I sure are tempted to drop on by for a Liturgy. I would welcome the "welcome" both before and after the Liturgy, from both the priest and parishioners. It sounds as if you have a real winner of a parish there. How do you think it happened? Was there an effort by people in the parish to put together some kind of program to welcome new people or did it just seem to happen? I'm serious and curious, since we are trying to figure out what to do with that ourselves. I'm open to any advice you can give!

S'Bohom!

Tim

Father, Bless!

I would think that your thoughts would be appreciated by all who read this forum. I know there is a time difference and you have many demands on your time. But if you would, please start a thread on the subject of encouraging vocations and existing clergy. Do so at your own time, but please do start a thread. As many "insider's opinions" as we can get would be enlightening to many people. We have our views, but there are so many things we can't know about since we are not in your shoes, or the shoes of any priest.

Tim

Dear Tim,

I shall attempt to do so, though right now I can't say when. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

Fr. Serge

Hi Tim,

I have only been at my parish for one year so I can only offer an opinion. I believe it is a reflection on the pastor. He and Matushka are so very kind and welcoming. Any strangers are immediately treated as if they are family. I must admit, I have never seen such fellowship when I was Roman Catholic or Byzantine Catholic (though I'm sure it exists). I'm not even sure if our parish is an exception amongst Orthodox Churches.

S'Nami Boh!

Our parish has a welcome team as well. They sit with people through the liturgy, take them on a tour of the church and explain things when the service has ended, and then introduce them to people at the fellowship hall. It's a relatively easy thing to get started as long as you have one or two personable and informed people on Sundays and weekday services. It's not uncommon at all for visitors to come on Wednesday (our normal weekday service day) to "try it out" as they know fewer people will be there.

I separated these posts into this thread from an ongoing thread in the RDL Forum because they were so focused on this particular (very important) topic but not directly relevant to the matter that originated the RDL thread. I hope that this discussion will continue, as I think it's of extreme importance to all our Churches - Catholic and Orthodox, Eastern and Oriental.

Many years,

Neil

Just givem a big sloppy kiss!
Stephanos I

To All:
3 pages of interesting remarks for this thread, and except for maybe one, no one has answered the question. A Byzantine Catholic Church is simply one of the other 22 churches of the Catholic church. Why can't people welcome in a person(s) who made a choice to come to YOUR CHURCH.
We want our church to thrive, but don't want any strange people coming in to celebrate the beautiful Divine Liturgy. When One enters a new place---"the first impression, is a lasting impression". What is so hard to sit next to a visitor(so you have to get up and move from your favorite spot) and assist them with the liturgy--to get them a bulletin, introduce yourself and if you have time, ask them to come to our social after the liturgy and if they go in, sit next to them. If they don't come back, think when they might talk to someone later, say how they were so nicely treated at that Byzantine Catholic church. I came to this thread, hoping to learn more how other Byzantine Catholic churches welcomed their visitors and found--everything else, but....
This is not what we experience here in Anchorage, Alaska--much more friendly--even our sign out front says--EVERYONE IS WELCOME, and our pastor welcomes the visitor from the pulpit, and we have a drink and snack social every Sunday, and visitors are invited and have someone sitting with them--so they will feel like family. Our Liturgy is all English. Big John (Cantor)

Big John,

A bit off-topic (maybe not, since the topic is welcoming), but I was delighted to see a post by you. It's been a long time and it was nice to see you here again.

Many years,

Neil