www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Greece legalises cremation

Cremation given green light
From correspondents in Athens

September 27, 2008 11:07pm
Article from: Reuters

GREECE'S highest court has approved a government move to legalise cremation, brushing aside complaints from the powerful Orthodox church that it was un-Greek and could hamper the resurrection of the dead.
The court ruling opened the way for municipal authorities to build crematoriums, but also specified that ashes could not be scattered in urban areas or, if at sea, within 1.5 miles of the shore.

A doctor will also have to provide a certificate stating that is no further need to examine the body.

The dogma of the Greek Orthodox church, which covers more than 90 per cent of Greece's 11 million population, strongly opposes cremation.

Its says bodies which God created should not be burned as this will prevent their resurrection on Judgement Day.

The constitution states that Greece is a secular democracy but recognises the Greek Orthodox church as the prevailing faith.

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I understand that Orthodoxy is opposed to cremation, but what does one do in places like Singapore where cremation is required by law?

Well, in this particular instance, I have to say that atleast it is the state and not the church, as is the case in the Roman Catholic church.

On the other hand, invited guest spokespeople for the church on liberal Greek news television programs are never articulate or convincing in defense of anything religious, whether they are lay persons/theologians or clergy. I cannot believe that these 'invited guests' are the best that the Greek Orthodox church in Greece has to offer, so either it is done deliberately so that viewers will be less inclined to accept church positions, or simply, they are too lazy to seek out better persons.

One way or the other, it is quite sad, and seems like an American styled concentrated media effort to undermine the Church and its positions.

Alice

Personally, I hope the Orthodox Church changes it's position on cremation before I die. I hope to be creamated. In fact I've already picked out the cookie jar I want my ashes buried in.

The attraction of cremation is incomprehensible to me, although I realize that there are some cases where it is necessary.

Fr. Serge

It's supposed to be cheaper than a traditional burial. Not to sound morbid, but I don't like the thought of a loved one being destroyed to a pile of ashes.

I remember an Orthodox priest once saying that he witnessed the process of cremation and that it isn't as simple as one might think and that it was degrading to the person.



To David: Think of the great care that was taken to respect the body of our Lord when He died, as was the custom. Think of the relics of the saints and how God speaks to us of their holiness by preserving them or emanating sweet fragrances from them.

From my parish's website:



I am curious as to why persons prefer this. Is it our fear of death; is it that we consider our deceased bodies to be somehow maccabre; is it that we don't want anyone to see us in the state of death; is it that we want to disappear from memory on this earth?

I am very curious as to the reasons people prefer it. Thank you.

In Christ,
Alice

My father always had a fear that his grave would be neglected - he found that country graveyards were a very sad sight.

Yes in the bigger towns of a Municipal Cemetery is used, it's possible to arrange for upkeep of the grave - but in small towns - that's not always possible. Our local cemetery has areas when gravestones have fallen and not been replaced - the grass is cut - but that's all - and the cemetery is still in use.

My father had always requested cremation because of this , but his wishes were overruled and he was buried in a wee country graveyard belonging to an Anglican Church - and he was Methodist.

Some years on what has happened - last time I visited it - no headstone and the grave was neglected - his wife died and was not buried in the same wee graveyard.

Since my children live many miles away - I will also request cremation

As I mentioned, there are sometimes special circumstances. A few years ago a Bishop died in Western Europe, the funeral was offered, and then the mortal remains were kept under refrigeration for months in some undertaker's premises until the climate and the political headaches made it possible to ship the mortal remains back to Eastern Europe for burial. Ugh!

Once or twice I've had to do "interments" for someone who had been cremated. It always feels strange censing an urn which presumably contains the ashes.

On the other hand, I'm also opposed to embalming (the weight of Orthodox tradition is with me on this). Please bury me, preferably in a "priests' plot", here in Ireland, in a plain wooden coffin, no embalming, no vault.

Fr. Serge

AS is the case what with the Catholic Church? Please explain what you mean there, I don't follow.


How does cremation hamper the work of the almighty? Are those who perished in fires at rish of having their resurrection hampered?

This utterly perplexes me, and of all the arguments against cremation, always sounds the most ill-thought out.

For the record, I want to be buried at sea...

My father's last resting place is on the Rosary Way at Aylesford Priory (Where our Lady gave the Scapular to St Simon Stock). Dad was cremated and his ashes laid at the foot of the Agony in the Garden station. I was there in August and the peace and beauty of the spot was totally uplifting, the trees behind the station were full of songbirds. Mum is planning the same for herself. The contrast with the neglected graveyard where my great-grandfather is buried could not be greater.

Dear Simple Sinner,

Does not the Roman Catholic church now allow cremation?

I believe the answer is 'yes'.

The Orthodox church does not.

That is exactly what I meant.

In the case in Greece, it is not the church that will allow it, but the state.

Hope this clarifies your confusion.

As for hampering the resurrection, again, as was quoted, the Orthodox church believes in honoring the body, the temple of the Holy Spirit, whenever possible, ofcourse. So did the Jews. Christ was buried with all due respect of that tradition.

The Roman Catholic Church must have agreed with this line of thinking until recently, since it was not allowed in the past. Catechism of the Catholic Church:


I believe I remembering reading that the only reason it now allows cremation is because of not wanting to distance believers from countries like India.

Alice

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Father Serge,

In the U.S., according to law, even Orthodox are embalmed. After seeing unembalmed bodies in Greece, I realize that it is indeed preferable. Ofcourse, for this reason, the funeral is almost immediate. Wakes do not exist. Ofcourse, wakes are necessary in the American landscape because of the distances people had to and still have to travel.

I also like simple wooden coffins, which are, to varying extents, common in Greece. This all seems much more natural. There is something somewhat 'off' about American practices--especially the huge, expensive 'cadillac' type coffins used. Hmmm.... maybe Bob/Theophan can shed some light onto the reasons for all this in the American funeral industry.

In Christ, Alice

The church allows it but doesn't encourage it. (Yes that sounds dumb to me too!)The church also says the ashes are not to be scattered. They are to be kept or buried. I know of a family who had a baby who died and they cremated her. When the first one dies they will bury her with the parent. I do not approve of cremation at all but that is what they did.

Alice I think you are right on the coffin. When I go I want to be buried in a coffin made by monks. Something simple with a cross on it. Forget the expensive box. Just pray for my soul and my family.

Dear Alice,

The wake is actually an Irish custom which spread to American along with the Irish. In Ireland, there's an increasing tendency to have the wake on the evening after the burial. People who don't know us are often shocked by the atmosphere of the wake - I'll never forget the time that a Ukrainian priest friend collected me at Idlewild and drove me to my great-aunt's wake in Westchester. My friend had never seen an Irish wake, and at the sight he turned to me and said, aghast "But nobody's grieving!" The bereaved husband heard this, came up at once and said "Ah, Father, she's better off than we are - have a drink!"

In Donegal, on the other hand, it's customary to invite a group of women to come and sing lamentations for the deceased, while everyone cries their eyes out (no, not at the quality of the music!).

If you'd like more details, I suggest the chapter on "Knocko MInehan's wake" in the novel The Last Hurrah.

A more serious but quite worth-while book is Jessica Mitford's The American Way of Death. It would be hilarious if it were not all true.

Then, of course, there is the famous Robert Service poem "The Cremation of Sam Magee", which I recommend heartily!

Fr. Serge

Dear Father Serge,

Yes, we New Yorkers are keenly aware of the unique 'Irish wake'. Many people in New York say that they wish their wakes to be like 'an Irish wake'...though if they are not Irish, they usually do not get their wish!

Also, forgive me for teasing you about this, but you said:

"...a Ukrainian priest collected me at Idlewild."

You are showing your age by calling it that!

(for those who are scratching their heads, the Idlewild airport is now called John F. Kennedy Airport!)

Respectfully,
In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,

I'm also showing my resistance to such name changes! Let the Kennedys build something new and name it for themselves.

However, I'm compelled to admit that New York taxi drivers go bananas when the passenger gets in the cab and says "Idlewild, please"!

But I console myself by the thought of Senator Idlewild looking at JFK and saying "Nya, Nya! Not everybody has forgotten me!"

Fr. Serge