www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography are Icons always painted on wood?

Dear Altar Server,

No disrespect intended to Yuhannon or anyone else on this August Forum, but I'd like to point out that the use of the verb 'written' rather than 'painted' for icons is advocated by a fiercely committed group of Eastern Christians, but it is not universally held by Eastern Christians. Many of us, perhaps the majority, still use the verb 'paint' for how icons are produced.

A note to all of those who take the word write as seriously as homoousios or filioque: I'm not interested in fighting over this. I was simply pointing out to an innocent bystander that there is a disagreement on this point among Eastern Christians of all stripes: Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, etc.

Fr David Straut

Dear Father David,

With the obvious exception of mosaics, one does indeed "paint" icons. The Greek word "grapheo" means both "to write" and "to paint". The same word lies at the root of "photograph" - does anyone think that a shutterbug "writes" his snapshots?

This foolishness about "writing" icons is an indication of the general illiteracy of our times.

fraternally yours in Christ,

Serge

Dear Fr Serge,

I wholeheartedly agree, but when I expressed myself in this Forum in the past on this subject, I found it to be about as useful as talking to the proverbial brick wall. There are those who feel that the sine qua non of being an Orthodox/Eastern/Greek Catholic/Ukrainian (etc.) Christian is to write icons. That to speak of painting icons is some sort of Pledge of Allegiance to Latin Scholasticism or the dreaded New World Order! My telling them the linguistic truth had about as much effect on them as the Bishops had on dear Nancy Pelosi when they informed her what her Church has always believed about abortion.

Fraternally,

Fr David

When I was living in South Carolina, I stopped at the bookstore of the local Episcopal cathedral. As I was browsing, I saw a hand-painted icon of the Mother of God. Out of curiosity, I asked the woman behind the counter if it was painted by one of the members of the cathedral. She informed me that it was, and that if I was interested in icons, the nearby Lutheran seminary offered a course in icons. I thanked her for the information, and informed her that I was Orthodox and painted icons as well. What followed was as amusing as it was bizarre.

"You mean you pray icons."

"Uh, what?"

"You don't paint icons, you pray icons."

I've been around ecclesiastical circles long enough to know the groundless debate over "write vs. paint" but this was the first time I ever encountered someone who insisted that the correct terminology is "pray."

My initial reaction was to say, "Hey, lady, I'm the real deal--I was raised in the Orthodox Church and I've been painting icons since I was 9! I don't need some uppity Episcopalian who heard one talk on icons telling me what I do or don't do. And, come on, at least argue for something that has some basis in reality!"

But, I figured THAT response wouldn't be Christian, and simply explained to her that some iconographers say paint, and some say write. I left the "pray" thing alone.

Oh, good times...

Dave
www.theologyincolor.com [theologyincolor.com]

Dear Father David,

I would much rather agree with you than with Nancy Pelosi!

Did you know, incidentally, that in Shakespearean terms abortion can be called "Love's Labor Lost"?

fraternally yours in Christ,

Serge

I have all kinds of icons in my room. Sometimes I will light my oil lamp in front of Christ and Theotokos, play some chant and pray. It is beautiful to look at them all with just an ounce of flickering light, trust me. The saints love it when someone lights a candle or lamp in front of their icon. It is a symbol of Christ's light unto the world.

What is really neat is when you ask a child what this or that icon is about and they can tell you what it is about and what each part is for - a child that is raised up in the faith.

poor seraphim

Dave,

I had to laugh - but I've heard that usage before. Now, you'll cost me a night's sleep trying to recollect where.

Stormshadow,

There are still mosaic icons written, glued, painted, or prayed (take your pick) in the Armenian Church and they are not unknown among the Melkites and Antiochians.

Bless Fathers David and Serge,

When one considers the relatively wide range of media in which Eastern and Oriental Christians have honored God, His Mother, the Saints and Prophets - on paint applied to wood, mosaic, terra-cotta, etched and hammered metal, on glass, embroidered, carved wood, frescoed, enameled, (and I've likely overlooked some medium - ahh, digitalized, which will come in time to be accepted as an art form acceptable in and of itself to iconography), it's hard to imagine that the argument of "writing' can still be seriously advanced.

But, these are the same folks who are also willing to decry the possibility that there are any true icons other than those fashioned by tempura on wood and the acheiropoietai.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Neil,
I think what you wanted to say was TEMPERA.I really don't mean to be nit-picky but it's Wednesday and we just returned from a dinner of vegetable tempura. I've always wanted to type this -"lol" !!!
Thanks for the chuckle,
Nino

Nino,

Nah - it's a new iconic medium (gives real texture to the presentation and is particularly effective in iconic depictions of such things as the multiplication of loaves and fishes); it is being pioneered by a crypto-byzantine community of icon writers in the remote islands of Japan. LOL.


Many years,

Neil

Shlomo Abun Dawoud,

I do not feel disrespected. As noted, I did put a smiley at the end of my statement.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Toward the end of the 90s it seems as though there was an interest in iconography among mainline Protestant denominations in a way that spoke to their hunger and thirst as the descendents of iconoclasts. (But one has to ask, really HOW iconoclastic were they? One can't go to a flea market without seeing for sale someone's dear Methodist Aunt Millie's painting of Jesus up for sale, I digress...)

I suspect that for a good many of them (many of whom were no longer as charged up in their fear of "popery") icons seemed reasonable inasmuch as they weren't "too roman" and they weren't like those mysterious statues of "Jesus' mom" the elderly often have in their garden...

I can't say that I see as much interest as I once did... I think it was - for some of them - almost the equivalent of a spiritual fad. I don't know what the "in" thing is today...

Still, the notion that a Lutheran seminary was - at least for a time - a hotbed of byzantine sacred arts... The irony isn't lost on me!

well last night I attended an orthodox church and the Icons where beautiful I never relized how deep the tradition ran so to speak they where everywhere the priest must have had at least 10 in his office

As the all-time king of typos I can only chuckle at this one...

And be reminded of a newscaster who, when talking about sects of Islam mentioned over and over Wasabi Muslims...

One wonders what a culinary and interfaith delight it would be if Wasabi Muslims took to creating tempura icons.

That's like when I was clicking two clam shells together and told my wife, "Look, I have katanas!"

My Joys, My Treasures,

Hey Altar Server, check out the story about Prince Vladmir of Russia. He sent out his people to find the church for him to attend. This is the beginning of Russia becoming Orthodox.... It is a very interesting story. You see the beauty in every Orthodox Church. You notice the use of ALL five senses of the body.

poor seraphim