The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
BC LV, returningtoaxum, Jennifer B, geodude, elijahyasi
6,175 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (bluecollardpink), 370 guests, and 90 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,522
Posts417,629
Members6,175
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#301097 10/10/08 04:26 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
This is a very stupid question... leave it to a Pilgrim to ask it grin

Is there any place in the Internet where I can find the official text of the RDL?

I keep reading here and there about its massive "omissions" but the standard Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy sure has a lot of omissions too (no verses at the Antiphons, no litanies at all between Gospel and Cherubic hymn, some shortened litanies etc.) and I'd like to see the difference.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 76
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 76

Larry L #301116 10/10/08 11:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,766
Likes: 30
John
Member
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,766
Likes: 30
1. Father Serge Keleher has written a review of the Revised Divine Liturgy: "Title: Studies on the Byzantine Liturgy - 1 - The Draft Translation: A Response to the Proposed Recasting of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom". The text of the RDL as it was at that time is appended at the end. Click here here to read. There is also a whole thread dedicated to the book, as well as many very detailed discussions in this forum that you might read. Holy Patronage Parish in Baltimore has a pdf version of the Chrysostom Liturgicon at this link [patronagechurch.com].

2. It is true that there are abbreviations in the celebration of the Divine Liturgy elsewhere, and that they differ in the various Orthodox and Greek Catholic jurisdictions. We see, however, with the Greeks that there is a purposeful effort to restore the missing parts (the recent Basil Liturgicon from Narthex Press restores the litanies between the Gospel and the Cherubic Hymn). We also see that there is no prohibition against celebrating the complete Divine Liturgy. With the Ruthenian Revised Divine Liturgy we see whole sections of the Divine Liturgy removed from the books and purposeful changing of the rubrics away from the official Ruthenian Liturgicon (and from the common standard shared by all). There is a difference between allowing abbreviations and mandating them. Also, common standards are important and the Ruthenian RDL very much creates a “Third Way”.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
Thank you for the links!

I have a PDF copy of Fr. Keleher's work but it doesn't have the draft of the RDL.

After reading the Chrysostom Liturgicon at the Holy Patronage link, I have the following quick questions and observations. In asking these, I do not intend to be critical of the BCC and of those who offer this RDL every Sunday, either for reasons of obedience or out of genuine like for, and acceptance of, the new version.

1) What happened to the litany between the First and Second Antiphons?

2) The text of the Typical Psalms (which can substitute for the 1st and 2nd Antiphon) is given as:

Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all my being bless his holy name
Blessed are you, O Lord
Praise the Lord, O my soul. I will praise the Lord all my life. I will make music to my God while I live.

Is this all?

3) Is the Third Antiphon an invariable one-verse in the RDL? (There is an directive which says "when the last refrain of the Antiphon is concluded" so it seems to be otherwise)

4) Since the Little or Small Entrance is now done during the Third Antiphon or Beatitudes, are there still any Apolytikia-- the ones sung in other Byzantine Churches during the Small Entrance PRIOR to the "Wisdom! Let us be attentive" and repeated afterwards, just before the Troparia and Kontakia?

5) Where is the "Dynamis?"

6) The entire Litany between the Great Entrance and the Creed has disappeared, only to be appended as on option before the Our Father, and after a slightly shortened version of the Litany before the Our Father. Is this a reconstruction of an earlier version of the Liturgy?


Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
1) Suppressed

2) That is all

3) One verse

4) Yes, but they are only taken with the other Troparia

5) Not part of the Ruthenian Recension

6) The Aitesis (Litany of Supplication, Angel of Peace petitions) appears in both places in Byzantine Liturgy. The first was suppressed in the RDL. Liturgical scholars concur that this Litany was an addition to the Liturgy from Vespers and even after it was added it was only taken once, only later to become doubled. Among the Greeks and Melkites it is usually the second that is suppressed if one is not taken.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
6) The Aitesis (Litany of Supplication, Angel of Peace petitions) appears in both places in Byzantine Liturgy. The first was suppressed in the RDL. Liturgical scholars concur that this Litany was an addition to the Liturgy from Vespers and even after it was added it was only taken once, only later to become doubled. Among the Greeks and Melkites it is usually the second that is suppressed if one is not taken.
Pretty much everything that comes before the Epistle is an entrance hymn of sorts except for the Litany of Peace, which originally came from later in the Liturgy. That does not mean they (antiphons, Only Begotten Son, Little Entrance, Troparia) - like all the litanies - have not become integral parts of the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is perfect as sculpted by the Holy Spirit. Liturgical Committees forcing their personal ideas upon it thwart the work of the Spirit over the centuries.


Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0