1 members (bluecollardpink),
370
guests, and
90
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,522
Posts417,629
Members6,175
|
Most Online4,112 Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028 |
This is a very stupid question... leave it to a Pilgrim to ask it  Is there any place in the Internet where I can find the official text of the RDL? I keep reading here and there about its massive "omissions" but the standard Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy sure has a lot of omissions too (no verses at the Antiphons, no litanies at all between Gospel and Cherubic hymn, some shortened litanies etc.) and I'd like to see the difference.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 76
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 76 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,766 Likes: 30
John Member
|
John Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,766 Likes: 30 |
1. Father Serge Keleher has written a review of the Revised Divine Liturgy: "Title: Studies on the Byzantine Liturgy - 1 - The Draft Translation: A Response to the Proposed Recasting of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom". The text of the RDL as it was at that time is appended at the end. Click here here to read. There is also a whole thread dedicated to the book, as well as many very detailed discussions in this forum that you might read. Holy Patronage Parish in Baltimore has a pdf version of the Chrysostom Liturgicon at this link [ patronagechurch.com]. 2. It is true that there are abbreviations in the celebration of the Divine Liturgy elsewhere, and that they differ in the various Orthodox and Greek Catholic jurisdictions. We see, however, with the Greeks that there is a purposeful effort to restore the missing parts (the recent Basil Liturgicon from Narthex Press restores the litanies between the Gospel and the Cherubic Hymn). We also see that there is no prohibition against celebrating the complete Divine Liturgy. With the Ruthenian Revised Divine Liturgy we see whole sections of the Divine Liturgy removed from the books and purposeful changing of the rubrics away from the official Ruthenian Liturgicon (and from the common standard shared by all). There is a difference between allowing abbreviations and mandating them. Also, common standards are important and the Ruthenian RDL very much creates a “Third Way”.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,028 |
Thank you for the links!
I have a PDF copy of Fr. Keleher's work but it doesn't have the draft of the RDL.
After reading the Chrysostom Liturgicon at the Holy Patronage link, I have the following quick questions and observations. In asking these, I do not intend to be critical of the BCC and of those who offer this RDL every Sunday, either for reasons of obedience or out of genuine like for, and acceptance of, the new version.
1) What happened to the litany between the First and Second Antiphons?
2) The text of the Typical Psalms (which can substitute for the 1st and 2nd Antiphon) is given as:
Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all my being bless his holy name Blessed are you, O Lord Praise the Lord, O my soul. I will praise the Lord all my life. I will make music to my God while I live.
Is this all?
3) Is the Third Antiphon an invariable one-verse in the RDL? (There is an directive which says "when the last refrain of the Antiphon is concluded" so it seems to be otherwise)
4) Since the Little or Small Entrance is now done during the Third Antiphon or Beatitudes, are there still any Apolytikia-- the ones sung in other Byzantine Churches during the Small Entrance PRIOR to the "Wisdom! Let us be attentive" and repeated afterwards, just before the Troparia and Kontakia?
5) Where is the "Dynamis?"
6) The entire Litany between the Great Entrance and the Creed has disappeared, only to be appended as on option before the Our Father, and after a slightly shortened version of the Litany before the Our Father. Is this a reconstruction of an earlier version of the Liturgy?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24
Moderator Member
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24 |
1) Suppressed
2) That is all
3) One verse
4) Yes, but they are only taken with the other Troparia
5) Not part of the Ruthenian Recension
6) The Aitesis (Litany of Supplication, Angel of Peace petitions) appears in both places in Byzantine Liturgy. The first was suppressed in the RDL. Liturgical scholars concur that this Litany was an addition to the Liturgy from Vespers and even after it was added it was only taken once, only later to become doubled. Among the Greeks and Melkites it is usually the second that is suppressed if one is not taken.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135 |
6) The Aitesis (Litany of Supplication, Angel of Peace petitions) appears in both places in Byzantine Liturgy. The first was suppressed in the RDL. Liturgical scholars concur that this Litany was an addition to the Liturgy from Vespers and even after it was added it was only taken once, only later to become doubled. Among the Greeks and Melkites it is usually the second that is suppressed if one is not taken. Pretty much everything that comes before the Epistle is an entrance hymn of sorts except for the Litany of Peace, which originally came from later in the Liturgy. That does not mean they (antiphons, Only Begotten Son, Little Entrance, Troparia) - like all the litanies - have not become integral parts of the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is perfect as sculpted by the Holy Spirit. Liturgical Committees forcing their personal ideas upon it thwart the work of the Spirit over the centuries.
|
|
|
|
|