www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News What good is vision without clergy?

On the other hand, what was it Eleanor Roosevelt once said? "No one can make you a victim without your consent" (or something like that).

Do you apply this socialist maxim to martyrs as well?...or even the Christ on the Cross?

Very interesting approach to abusive power.

Apparently you've never had anyone cancel your pension and health care benefits when you've been old and dependent.

Maru

I am sure you mean go "back" to my cell...I've been there for a decade on this issue Sam, and the battles are with us, not behind us.

I appreciate your desire to duck the difficult...It is a perfectly human response.

Blessings....Maru

IMHO Mary, we have to think beyond and plan around these next few years.

Leadership will change with the simple passing of time.Morale is improving already as our good men begin to stand up, brush themselves off and look forward again.

Forgiveness releases both sides and allows the freedom to move forward. We need to move forward.

Sam

We NEED to redress some of the damage done to the clergy of the Passaic diocese or old men will die of neglect, both spiritual and material. Or is that just part of movin'on???

It is clear we see the world a bit differently Sam.

Maru

Diak,

You are so correct. Anyway, I will be celebrating my birthday on that day.

Wishing you well on your ordination.

Joe

Friends,

Did you notice Father's suggestion of August 13 for an alternate date. I know I have to take out the garbage that day, but I'm planning on working around it. :p

Dan L

God makes us aware of certain specific concerns so we can do something about them. E.g., those concerned with the liturgy should make their concerns known to those who can do something about it and then work to see that things are done properly. Those concerned with vision and evangelism should certainly work in those areas. Those concerned with pensions support for elderly clergy should get the exact information needed in that area, recruit helpers, and do something about it.

If this is a legitimate concern, and I'm not doubting you, I simply don't know, then get busy, get the specifics, prod the powers that be, recruit helpers, and address the problem.

I know something about visioning and evangelism. I know a little but not much about the fine points of the liturgy. I know nothing but what Father Loya tells me about retired clergy. Hence, for me, I'm putting my time in the first and encouraging others to do something constructive in the second and third areas.

Go for it. God has placed this on your heart. Godspeed.

Dan L

If this is likening the celebration of one of the 12 Great Feasts which precipatated the rescheduling to taking out your garbage, I enjoy a joke now and then, but this is not really called for. :rolleyes:

Joe, thank you and God bless. It has been a long and very curved road, as I know you among few others can sypmathize.

The date has been changed. I think you noticed that. My son's birthday is August 13. Fall class preparation is coming up. In fact I doubt that there is any day on the calendar that something wouldn't conflict with something else. Not everyone will rank things in the same priority as I do. I think we've both noticed that.

Dan L

My only problem with the 13th is that I will be in Michigan on a well deserved vacation.

:::sigh:::

John

Someone has noticed something....

Some of us are directly involved in the liturgical cycle and life of our parishes, in our parish ministries and activities, and we have those obligations in addition to our families, jobs, etc. etc.

We may be cantors, servers, readers, subdeacons, etc. "That" should be understood as a priority, and at least for myself and others here and we take it most seriously, as our lex orandi is a vehicle to evangelization par excellence in the Byzantine tradition in our own communities. I hope you will eventually notice that as well.

Anyway, I can't commit to a date until I get something else worked out. But please avoid the 12 Great Feasts when planning these things.

Those concerned with pensions support for elderly clergy should get the exact information needed in that area, recruit helpers, and do something about it.

If this is a legitimate concern, and I'm not doubting you, I simply don't know, then get busy, get the specifics, prod the powers that be, recruit helpers, and address the problem.

I know something about visioning and evangelism. I know a little but not much about the fine points of the liturgy. I know nothing but what Father Loya tells me about retired clergy. Hence, for me, I'm putting my time in the first and encouraging others to do something constructive in the second and third areas.

Go for it. God has placed this on your heart. Godspeed.

Dan L [/QB][/QUOTE]

I am not concerned about retired clergy. I am concerned about active clergy undergoing active abuse from the unhealthy ministrations of an active bishop and his chancellor.

And to take any one case in point will only result in the potential punitive removal of that priest into early, involuntary retirement or any other uncanonical move that bishop chooses to make, and he has been making them all along but there's been no challenge for there is no morale and great fear, for he has ruled for eight years by threat and intimidation.

Has Father Tom told you anything about why Bishop Andrew is no longer bishop of Parma? Does Father Tom know anything about how Bishop Andrew got to be bishop of Passaic? Does Father Tom know anthing about the current state of affairs with the clergy in Passaic? Would Father Tom tell you the truth if he did?

Do thoroughbreds have courage or simply speed?

And for the two of you a question....I already took the issues to Metropolitan Judson, in life, who told me that there was nothing that could be done. Do you or Father Tom have any suggestions besides "letting the poor bastards hang"...so to speak?

Maru

Maru,

Why don't you send Father a pm or an email? He's readily available and very accessible.

Dan L