www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Blanket Permission for Byzantine (Old) Divine Liturgy?

I have a question. We were coming out of St. Paul’s Cathedral on Saturday night and ran into some friends from St. John’s Cathedral. They told us that Archbishop Schott is letting parishes return to the Byzantine (Old) Divine Liturgy and will no longer be required to take the RDL. They even said he went to a parish in West Virginia for an ordination and insisted that the Byzantine (Old) Divine Liturgy be used. Is this true? Is it official? Can anyone confirm this? If this is true it is really good news. I really miss our way. I almost want to call the chancery but they never give real answers.

I've had the same report. Interesting, but we do need confirmation.

Fr. Serge

Remember where you heard it first.

Fr. Deacon Lance

GLORY TO GOD!

I pray this is true...please keep us updated!!

I have heard that there are some parishes that have never adopted the Revised Divine Liturgy, and that when the Metropolitan visits them he does not make an issue of it. I do not think that this can be considered as blanket permission for parishes to return to the Byzantine Liturgy (1964 translation and and related music). If there is an official statement somewhere allowing the full Ruthenian Recension Divine Liturgy in English I'd be very happy to see it! Until such time that we see it in writing it is premature to assume official permission for anything except the RDL.

Again, it is my hope that the Council of Hierarchs will rescind the RDL and finally make normative all the official Liturgical books of the Ruthenian Recension. Then, take the 1964 translation and correct the errors so that it is literally faithful to the Church Slavonic edition (adding nothing and omitting nothing, adhering to the directives of the "Liturgical Instruction" and "Liturgiam Authenticam"). And to do so in a way that respects what has been memorized (why hurt people when you don't have to?). The goal should be the full and correct celebration of all the Divine Services. Mandates are unnecessary and don't work. The way forward is through example, education and encouragement.

This is good news.

I have just been rereading The Ratzinger Report and then Cardinal Ratzinger made this observation which may help the faithful to understand the phenomena of what the Bishops were dealing with in the promulgation of the RDL. He stated:



The Ratzinger Report p. 62.

God bless the Metropolitan! May the other Bishops follow his lead and may the priests be courageous in "testing the waters."

Praise God!

Please tell me that we'll be deleting that horrible THEOTOKOS word....

What's so horrible about the word Theotokos?

Delete the Theotokos? What?

You are kidding of course? Theotokos is the correct word to use.

"Theotokos" is the highest title given to Mary.
In 431, the Third Ecumenical Council upheld the true doctrine that Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ is both fully Holy God and fully Man.

"Theotokos" is a Greek word made up of two parts. The prefix "Theo" means God and the word "tokos" means "carrier or bearer in the womb" (birth mother). (Tokos can only refer to a birth mother.) Then, the word "Theotokos" means "carrier or bearer of God in her womb (birth mother)".

The Ever-Virgin Mary was the carrier or bearer (birth mother) of Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ, the son of God and the second person in the Holy Trinity. The Theotokos carried Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ from His Incarnation (conception according to the Flesh) to His Nativity (birth according to the Flesh). Therefore, Mary can rightly be called "Theotokos" or "God-bearer."

The term "Theotokos" does not imply that Mary contributed anything to the divine nature of Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ. The term "Theotokos" merely affirms the belief that the person to whom she gave birth is without division both God and a human being.

Mary, the mother of Holy God the Son within the Holy Trinity / Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ is the "Theotokos".
She is NOT the "Christotokos". The prefix "Christo" means "Christ" and the word "tokos" means "carrier or bearer in the womb" (birth mother). Then, the word "Christotokos" means "carrier or bearer of Christ in her womb (birth mother)".
Mary was called "Christotokos" (Mother of Christ) by Nestorius and his followers. They believed that Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ was a very holy man sent by God, but was not Himself the Holy Son of Holy God, that is Holy God the Holy Son.
http://www.mliles.com/melkite/theotokos.shtml

Too bad the Fathers of the Council of Ephesus did not realize how horrible the word "Theotokos" is.

You are NOT in a Greek church so why use a Greek word?

If you're going to use something non-English, then use MATERBOHA which is the correct term or BOHORODICE which is even better...

If you're going to insist on using English, then make it ALL ENGLISH translation and make sure the semantics are correct. If a woman gives birth then she is a mother, so MOTHER OF GOD is correct in English.... if it ain't broken don't fix or we'll have another fiasco on hour hands....

"Mother of God" is perfectly good English, which is among the reasons for its continued use in those places in our services where it is found in the original - such as the chant "It is truly meet . . ." during the Anaphora.

Theotokos is also good English, and is found in the vocabulary of educated traditional Christians, which is among the reasons for its use in those places in our services where it is found in the original - such as the chant I just mentioned.

We are not in a Greek Church? I just looked up your "profile" and found that you state that you are a Greek Catholic. You should, then, be proud that many theological and religious terms in English come from Greek. This includes the term "Catholic", which is a purely Greek word. I'll let you enjoy looking it up for yourself.

Fr. Serge