0 members (),
332
guests, and
94
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,524
Posts417,636
Members6,176
|
Most Online4,112 Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672 Likes: 2
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672 Likes: 2 |
Naples Archbishop handed over St. Januarius's relics to Alexy II Moscow, October 1, Interfax – Archbishop of Naples Crescenzio Cardinal Sepe, who is visiting Russia, has handed over to Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia a reliquary with a particle of St. Januarius's relics on Wednesday. A 19th century cross containing part of the relics from the St. Januarius' skull was handed to the Patriarch in a ceremony at his residence in St. Daniel monastery in Moscow. Cardinal Sepe said the relics would hopefully "symbolize a link between the martyrdom of St. Januarius and the numerous new martyrs of the Russian Orthodox Church and will serve the purpose of deepening relations on the basis of our Churches' common martyrdom," he said. Alexy II thanked the Cardinal for the gift and said that St. Januarius was a martyr of "one and undivided Church." St. Januarius is revered in Russia today as "a symbol of good relations between our Churches," Alexy II said. The Russian Patriarch also thanked the Archbishop of Naples for the transfer of a church in Naples to the local community of the Moscow Patriarchate in October 2007 and welcomed the decision by the Catholic hierarchs in Naples "to respond to the needs of our believers." The positions of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches coincided on many pressing issues, including the understanding of human rights, family ethics and role of traditional values in public life, Alexy II said. Cardinal Sepe visits Russia as a guest of the Russian Orthodox Church. On the eve, he met with Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad who approved of the cardinal’s active participation in giving a church construction in downtown Naples to the Russian community in October 2007. Cardinal Sepe and representatives of the Roman Catholic Church accompanying him stressed they hoped for cooperation with the Russian Church as it had great spiritual and intellectual potential in promoting traditional Christian values in Europe, the Moscow Patriarchate official website has reported. Holy Martyr Januarius Bishop of Benevento, whose relics will be handed over to the Patriarch today, was tortured and died as a martyr in sulfuric mines near Solfatara volcano in 305 where he came to visit Christians imprisoned under Emperor Diocletian. His relics were preserved in catacombs and then transferred to Benevento and Montevergine Abbey. They were placed in the Naples Cathedral named after him in 1497. His head and two vessels with his blood collected by a pious widow when the bishop was martyred are kept in the luxurious cathedral chapel. Dried blood of the Naples patron becomes liquid thrice a year on September 19 when the saint is commemorated, on December 16, when Naples residents celebrate anniversary of their miraculous deliverance from Mt. Vesuvius eruption in 1631, and on Saturday before May 1 on the day when relics of the saint were transferred to Naples. Residents of Naples believe that when the saint’s blood liquefies, it is a good sign and the city will live another peaceful year. When the miracle doesn’t happen, residents wait for the trials to come. Thus, when the blood did not become liquid in 1631, epidemic of plague affected Naples. The miracle did not happen before the earthquake in South Italy in 1976. taken from: http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=5217
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian Member
|
Orthodox Christian Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180 |
This is wonderful news showing that cooperation can take place.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787 |
For those who may not be aware: St Januarius is the San Gennaro for whom the famous Festival held each year in Little Italy in New York City is named. Did San Gennaro like zeppole? The first time I tasted this treat was as a boy at the San Gennaro Festival. Oddly enough, my Mother (who had no Italian connection whatever) told me it was exactly the same thing she made us several times a year. She called it by the much more imaginative name of "Fried Bread" and we ate it with butter and jam. Fr David Straut
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678 Likes: 1 |
Cool.
Do Orthodox leaders also make a habit of giving relics of saints to Catholics? I always see stories like this (Catholic to Orthodox), but rarely (meaning never) hear of the generosity flowing back from the other direction. So, in the interest of charity, I would like to know if other posters know of any such occurrences?
And, please folks, no needless "sacking of Constantinople" stuff!
Alexis
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16
Global Moderator Member
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16 |
Alexis, my friend,
I don't think your perception is entirely inaccurate insofar as the gifting of relics has been chiefly from Rome - either via the pope or papal emissaries - to the Orthodox Churches, both Eastern and Oriental.
However, without focusing on the Sack of Constantinople, it still remains that the Catholic Church is in possession of vastly more relics - particularly those of mutually-venerated pre-Schism Saints - than are the Orthodox ecclesia, even taken as a group. Certainly, many - if not most - relics held by our Orthodox brethren are of post-Schism Saints, canonized by their respective Churches.
While it isn't uncommon to find such Saints venerated by Eastern &/or Oriental Catholics, gifting the Pope with a relic of - for instance - Saint Alexis of Minneapolis & Wilkes-Barre would be as awkward a moment as would His Holiness gifting a relic of Saint Josaphat Kuntzevich to His Beatitude Alexy.
That said, I think that keeping any scorecard on this would serve no valid purpose, and I'd extend that thought to the gifting of temples, as has been done a number of times in recent years, particularly in Italy. Would I like to see more reciprocity in that regard vis-a-vis the gifting of temples to Catholic congregations which lack them - particularly gifting that represents a "return" of temples that were involuntarily translated to Orthodoxy? Yes, of course.
Do I believe it should be a condition of affording worship space to the Russian or any other Orthodox community in Italy? No, I would not deny my brethren a temple in which to worship because someone else, somewhere else, has elected to do that to me or us (in old-fashioned, simple terms, two wrongs do not a right make).
And, when it comes down to the grass-roots level, one rarely sees generosity stinted. In virtually every instance in which an Eastern or Oriental Catholic or Orthodox temple is destroyed by fire or other accident, the first response, the first offer of worship space, and even the loan of vesture, emanates from the nearest "other" temple.
I'll not have convinced you nor some others by any of what I've said - but, to my mind, it's reality.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678 Likes: 1 |
Neil,
No, I don't really actually have a problem with what you say. But it nevertheless seems to me that the Orthodox have plenty of relics of pre-Schism saints with which they could return the favors. But I think pigs will fly before an Orthodox temple is donated to Catholics.
And truthfully, I don't have a problem with that, since I am somewhat reticent about bartering with the relics of the saints, whatever the admirable intentions. But one would prefer to see some consistency.
Alexis
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10
Moderator Member
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10 |
But I think pigs will fly before an Orthodox temple is donated to Catholics. LOL...You are right, but think of this: When one's first born/older brother does what those first born brothers do best...been judgemental, imposing, and arrogant, it is up to that brother to be the first one to make amends to heal a relationship. When one's first born/older brother has been the wealthy and successful one, while younger brother has been generally down and out (though not perfect himself in character by any means), younger brother will never feel himself in the position to make the first move, because one of younger brother's character flaws is the ingrained feeling of subtle resentment towards the many years of feeling oppressed and judged by big brother. What would a therapist or spiritual guide tell any such older brother? He would say to take the first step towards trust and healing the wounds of the relationship...and he might also say to make it a habit to keep on trying to heal it. He would probably add that it didn't take just one transgression or situation to hurt younger brother, so that for all the years of hurt, there should be just as many years of love and charity. I think that this analogy probably says it best as to what we are seeing in exclusive Roman Catholic overtures of good will and reconciliation towards the Orthodox.  In Christ, Alice
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
A Niall, a chara (or "habibi", if you prefer)
"Ecclesia" is a singular word (first declension); plural is "ecclesiae".
Giving anyone a relic of a Saint if/when one has good cause to think that the prospective recipient does not care to venerate that Saint would be deplorable - the holy relics belong with those who will venerate them.
"Two wrongs do not make a right" is a postulate that often seems inadequate - it is "wrong" to imprison someone, to deprive him of his otherwise lawful property, and most of all to deprive him of his life. Yet courts do such things day in and day out, and the judges would be thoroughly unimpressed at being told that "Two wrongs do not make a right".
We are taught by the Lord to return good for evil, not to attempt to match the evil using some sort of measuring stick!
At the same time, however, there is a rather different consideration. In almost any human relationship, someone who constantly gives but does not receive reciprocal gifts earns himself contempt, not respect. Some form of reciprocity is needed, without necessarily using scorecards or trying to reduce the value of gifts to money.
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10
Moderator Member
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10 |
At the same time, however, there is a rather different consideration. In almost any human relationship, someone who constantly gives but does not receive reciprocal gifts earns himself contempt, not respect. Some form of reciprocity is needed, without necessarily using scorecards or trying to reduce the value of gifts to money.
Fr. Serge So true!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16
Global Moderator Member
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16 |
A Niall, a chara (or "habibi", if you prefer)
"Ecclesia" is a singular word (first declension); plural is "ecclesiae". Bless, Father (or "Abouna"  ), Indeed it is and Father John Waterbury Kelly, SJ, memory eternal, undoubtedly thanks you (as do I), while muttering to himself, "can't that boy ever remember the proper ending?"  Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302
Roman Catholic Member
|
Roman Catholic Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 302 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329 |
"Do Orthodox leaders also make a habit of giving relics of saints to Catholics? I always see stories like this (Catholic to Orthodox), but rarely (meaning never) hear of the generosity flowing back from the other direction. So, in the interest of charity, I would like to know if other posters know of any such occurrences?"
I know of a case in which a relic was given from the Armenian Orthodox to an Anglican and is now in Catholic hands...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10 |
Sometime in the late 1990's, I recall reading online about the return of an icon to Ukrainian Greek Catholics from Ukrainian Orthodox. More recently, last year there was a moleben service before a relic of Saint Seraphim of Sarov at the biritual Benedictine monastery in Chevetogne, Belgium. The relic was from the Russian Orthodox Archeparchy of Brussels. Bishop André-Mutien Léonard of the Diocese of Namur, in which the monastery is located, was present. I am not sure whether the relic was a gift to the Chevetogne monastery or if it was just for the moleben service. Either way it was a very significant event for a relic of a post-schism Orthodox saint to be given a liturgical service in a Catholic monastery. Here is an article [ archiepiskopia.be] about it in Russian. If anyone can read Russian, does the article mention whether the relic was a gift to the monastery? Here are some photos of the event: [ Linked Image] [ Linked Image] [ Linked Image] [ Linked Image]
Last edited by griego catolico; 10/15/08 03:40 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672 Likes: 2
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 672 Likes: 2 |
Excellent pics! Thank you for sharing them.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|