www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Patriarch Of The West

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

I would love to know what others think about this title. I am submitting a poll to see.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Patriarch Of The West single choice
	Pope should keep this title and stress its imporants
	Pope should keep this title but not stress it
	Without this title Pope could no longer claim universal jurisdiction
	Pope should call an ecumencial council to determine the correct course of action
	Pope should review all the titles connected with his office and "junk" the ones that no longer apply
	I do not really care
	Pope should only have these ten titles: His Holiness The Pope; Bishop Of Rome; Vicar Of Jesus Christ; Successor Of St. Peter, Prince Of The Apostles; Supreme Pontiff Of The Universal Church; Patriarch Of The West; Servant Of The Servants Of God; Primate O
	Pope should continue with the current policy
	Pope should let someone else use this title
	Pope should renounce this title
Votes accepted starting: 10/18/08 09:58 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

I said he should continue with the current policy; and the current policy is that the Pope is not the "Patriarch of the West," or, at the very least, he does not recognize such an official title.

From what I've read, the Western idea of patriarchates never mirrored the understanding which grew in the East. Anyway I think it nicely builds on the fact that he is the Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, a unique office that cannot be compared to a patriarchal office.

All that said, I don't know too terribly much about the issue. I'd love to hear some other thoughts from people who know more than I do.

Why is there an option for "Pope should renounce this title" as well as "Pope should continue with the current policy?" He has renounced this title, so the current policy is that it is not in use.

Alexis

Benedict XVI has not renounced the title - he has simply stopped listing it in the Annuario Pontificio. Will someone who has a copy (I don't) tell me if it includes the Papal title of Bishop of Kilfenora?

Fr. Serge

Fr. Serge,

Dropping it from the Annuario, at least I thought, was tantamount to renouncing it. Short of saying "I renounce this title," couldn't this be counted as that? If not, what significance does dropping it in the Annuario have? Certainly it is meant to convey something, otherwise it wouldn't have been done in the first place.

Alexis

With all due respect, this argument reminds me of the passage Luke 22:27. I realize we cannot erase history, but apart from here, how many patriarch's spend much time debating which title(s) they should maintain/retain for themselves?

If we were to suppose Jesus came upon Peter, Andrew, and the other disciples drafting this survey to hand out to the crowd gathered in Galilee, asking them to cast their vote for which titles Peter should adopt/retain - it's almost laughable..... Though Simon Peter was forgiven and missioned by Jesus to be the "cornerstone" I doubt he would have assumed all these titles in the community of Apostles, remembering how he sinned against the Lord. One wonders what the Lord and St. Peter, viewing from heaven, must think about all this current debate. A similar debate, however, surely went on in the palace of Caesar Augustus in Rome....

"A dispute arose also a between them about which should be reckoned the greatest, but he said to them, 'Among pagans it is the kings who lord it over them, and those who have authority over them are given the title Benefactor. This must not happen with you. No; the greatest among you must behave as if he were the youngest, the leader as if he were the one who serves. For who is the greater: the one at table or the one who serves? The one at table, surely? Yet here am I among you as one who serves!" (Luke 22:24-27)

With respect,
Pustinik