www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Is Obama a citizen of the United States?

The RC vote doesn't care about abortion. It's default Democrat: the old immigrant-labour thing is part of their identity... and they've gone along with the mainstream on those issues. (Most ethnic Orthodox are the same.) The ones who do try to follow the church on that get suckered into voting Republican. A minority.

Most americans do not vote on social issues such as abortion. Most americans (even those who are prolife, or moderately prolife) vote on the basis of economics and foreign policy, usually with economics trumping everything. What does this mean? To most american voters, no matter their personal view on abortion, the position of the candidates on abortion is irrelevant. By the way, this is why I think that prolife politicians who do a poor job of governing and who support bad economic and foreign policies actually hurt the prolife movement. Imagine how much credibility President Bush might have had with the public if he had not taken us into an unjust and illegal war and if he had not supported the use of torture and if he had not supported an economic policy designed to benefit wall street at the expense of others.

Joe

The Catholic Church does say that abortion is the number one issue. The basis for all Catholic social justice is the basic right to life.

With all due respect.The democrats have done just as much harm on wall street . There were reasons why we went to war. Democrats supported it too. Clinton took us to Kosovo and we are still there.

I agree with this. I have been thinking of ditching the GOP for a while now.

We have the Party of Moloch and Priapus and then we have the Party of Mammon and Ares. Why vote for either one?

Bring back a Hapsburg or Wittelsbach! Intercede for us Blessed Karl!

God bless the King, the Church's true Defender
And bless (no harm to bless) the Pretender.
But which Pretender be, and which be King
God bless us all - that's quite another thing!


(My preference would probably be a Hapsburg)

Fr. Serge

But you don't have import a royal family if you want one
we have one native to the US! [en.wikipedia.org]

Shlomo Abun Sarkis,

You have hit right at the center of my Monarchist heart. I too am a very big supporter of the Hapsburgs, and would love to see a united Europe under a Hapsburg Monarchy. As a matter of fact, my final paper on Modern European History was on the issue that if the United States had agreed to the Austria-Hungry's compitulation and had let the empire stay together, then Hitler would not have been able to have taken power as he did, nor have been able to seize central Europe.

Blessed Karl is one of people that I pray to, when I vote, as I will be doing this morning (we have early voting in Nevada), another is St. Sir Thomas Moore.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Sisters and Brothers,

Some may find the following discussions from America magazine to be helpful:

On voting one’s conscience:
http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=11159

Racism and the Election:
http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=11161

Intrinsic Evil and Political Responsibility:
http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=11166

Z Bohom!
Pustinik
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"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." –St. Serafim of Sarov

If, from certain perspectives shared here, voting Obama would result in more abortions, then if one accepts such premises, doesn't one have vote for McCain over a third party candidate?

I think I saw Lawrence (forgive me, Lawrence, if it was someone else and I'm mistakenly attributing it to you) a couple pages back say he was going to vote for a third party candidate. But if one knows, realistically, that a third party candidate will not be elected, isn't voting for one effectively just taking a vote away from McCain, therefore helping Obama get closer to winning the presidency, therefore being at odds with the intended goal?

Alexis

Sisters and Brothers,

There was a time when many Americans would bemoan how low we had sunk as a nation by nominating a Catholic such as Al Smith (or JFK). Kind of sad.... But those days are still here.

Some derisively say "Barack HUSSEIN Obama," making play with a person's given name. Not too many years ago our parents (or some of us ourselves) recall being scrutinized or made fun of for having a Slavic name - others may have felt the same with Greek, Irish, or Italian names. We were U.S. citizens but our fellow citizens treated us as foreigners.....

General Colin Powell on Meet the Press today is exactly right - is it wrong for a young Muslim boy or girl carrying a characteristically Islamic name to hope that they might some day become President? Maybe the Presidency is closed to Muslims? What is this America - great shining light among the nations? Is the Presidency only for citizens with "American" names, and only for Christians. Is a Christian (or Muslim) carrying an Arabic name problematic -- just like a Christian with a Slavic name might have been problematic during the Cold War?

This is not to say Senator Obama is an Arab or a Muslim. He is known to be a American Christian with a Muslim father. This is well established. But the rhetoric of this campaign sadly shows that the children revisit the sins of the parents. Many of us whose ancestors faced prejudice from "WASPS" now are mimicking the same behavior.

Hopefully God will give Americans the wisdom to move behind some of the ethnic prejudices that unfortunately continue to rear their ugly heads. Thank God that General Colin Powell spoke truth on this matter today.

May God bestow peace upon those with whom we agree and disagree,
Pustinik
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"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved." –St. Serafim of Sarov

Dear Pustinik,

You are right about names. That should not be an issue and no one should be prejudiced for having an ethnic sounding first or last name.

Re: Colin Powell.

I wonder if Senator Obama would have backed him if he had been running for President! (Actually I would have liked him as President)...Somehow I doubt it.

I also do not see Condoleeza Rice getting the respect she deserves as a Black American and *female* Secretary of State...but then again, I forgot--she is a Republican, so that doesn't count!

Have a nice day,
Alice

I thought Colin Powell was exceptionally eloquent today on Meet The Press. I found myself in agreement with nearly everything I said.

Here's a link to the video for those of you who missed it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27265490#27265490

Alexis

Yep, me too. And I still say that when the pro-life candidate supports things like torture and unjust war, the prolife candidate does much to harm the prolife cause. Think about it, a president with a 26% approval rating is not going to be able to be the bully pulpit for life. And while I have no illusions about Obama, I have to say that watching the McCain/Palin campaign has been probably the most disappointing political experience I've ever had. One can do a bit of research and see that the campaign, and both McCain and Palin personally, have told bald-faced lies and continue to tell them. Andrew Sullivan has been listing Palin's lies on his site with the evidence http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/. And I think that we should be prepared for the unfortunate fact that because Obama and the Democrats will likely rule the country for the next four years, they will likely put the nail in the coffin of the prolife movement. But I think that part of the responsibility for this does lie with the inept policies and despicable campaigning of Republicans.

Joe

Maybe not - I've recently learned about a small but growing group of pro-life Democrats (http://www.democratsforlife.org/). Unfortunately, the pro-life advocates have often demonized pro-abortion opposition, instead of trying to engage and inform. And in many cases where a woman faces the option of abortion, the quick, throw away culture, contextualized with the shame of an unintended pregnancy, or the responsibilities of rearing a(nother) child, make abortion "seemingly" all too easy. And then the remorse sets in. Ministries such as Rachel's Vineyard have been a blessing to many facing such sorrowful knowledge of past actions (www.rachelsvineyard.org [rachelsvineyard.org]).

Groups such as Students for Life (http://www.studentsforlife.org/) are also working to change culture on college campuses. I personally have hope that such efforts will continue to make progress in the hard work of informing youth about responsible action.

An aspect of pro-life work that we do not often discuss is the men in the picture. Some wonder how many women have had abortions. But how many men walking around today have been parties to encouraging a woman to have an abortion. For every abortion a woman has requested, there is a male partner "in the wings." Abortion has become an all too convenient option for many "respectable" young (and older) men who do not wish to take responsibility for their relationships. I believe there are ministries emerging like Rachel's Vineyard whereby men who have been party to abortion decisions can seek healing in context of repentence for their action.

May God bless you,
Pustinik