www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Joe the Plumber

ALEXIS:

If "Joe the Plumber" thinks he's going to make that kind of money, he's in for a big surprise. I'd love to be his bookkeeper. I'd even settle for being in the office when his accountant lets him know there's no paycheck for him because of the anticipated tax increases we can expect this coming January no matter who is in the White House.

BOB

JOHN:

Where do we find the idea that profits are something associated with "rights"? If a man takes a risk and finally comes up with a profit like that, who is to say that he does not deserve it or have a "right" to it?

I worked for a man for many years who was paying for the professional practice that we both derived our living from. Because of the high mortgage payments he had, I made more than he did. His "salary" was pumped into his mortgage payment and his "draw" was $212.20 per week for 15 years. His wife worked to support the family and his hope was that he could sell the practice after it was paid in full for his retirement. But for those working years until he was finished, he had barely enough for coffee and lunch each week. IMHO, if he made a profit on selling the place and had a quarter million over what he'd paid for the place, he had earned it. We worked some long hours--typically 60+ per week and there was no OT, just salary. But he paid me well over triple what he was drawing and always made sure I was paid first--and I mean take-home after taxes and withholding. So, again, if he made a quarter million at sale, I say God bless him.

BOB

Is Joe the Plumber a business owner? Or is he just earning a wage. If he owns the business he is probably in very deep financial trouble and wont owe any income tax but will be destroyed by social security and workmans comp payments. If he is grossing 250,000 a year as a wage earner I think he needs someone to take care of his money for him if he cant make ends meet.

He is earing a wage and has an ambition to take over his employer's business. He spoke very clearly to Obama and has spoken very clearly in recent interviews. From how he has been speaking, he would be owning a business which has a yearly revenue exceeding $250,000.

None of the attacks against Joe the Plumber's credibility have changed the answer Obama gave him. There are many people who don't want him spreading the wealth.

Terry

No, perhaps taxing wealthier people to a higher degree is not fair, outside of a vacuum. But neither are the economic policies of the last eight years, which have served the very wealthy to the extreme disadvantage of the middle- and lower-classes. I think that is more unfair, since many of these people lack far more important things than BMWs and third homes; they can't afford things like healthcare, life insurance, gasoline, etc.

And so although I do concede that taxing the top 5% of our nation moreso than others is perhaps not optimal, maybe, just maybe, it will make a small dent in the grossly unfair economic policies of the last many years.

Alexis

This may interest some:

"A Catholic Shift to Obama?" by E.J. Dionne, Jr.

from one of today's newspapers:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...0/AR2008102002290.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Peace be with you,
Pustinik

What in particular has been unfair, that some have and others have not?

Terry

TERRY:

I think you're right on the money.

We have equality of opportunity, not of outcomes. Another point that was made by an economist is that in America the top 5% keeps moving. Some who are in it for a few years move down as they retire or lose their jobs. At one time or another people may temporarily be in that top 5% but rarely do people stay there in terms of income.

Then the debate shifts to the jealousy over people who have inherited wealth, not income. But they're different.

Personally, I think the problem is that our post-Christian civilization has forgotten the generosity that the Church teaches as part of being a follower of Christ. OTOH, we cannot force generosity and sharing our gifts by government fiat. St. Basil says that our abundance is the voluntary storehouse of the poor. But he doesn't say that the government is the steward of it--we are. It's only to the extent that we have absorbed ideas from 19th century socialists that we have moved to the idea that it si the job of government to redistribute what some of us earn becasue we earn more than others. For the Christian, the story of the rich man and Lazarus ought to be in the forefront of our minds. But we, too, need constant reminders.

Back to Joe the Plumber. If I do the math, he earns $125.00 per hour?!? If so, his boss' business must be in Washington, DC, among the wealthy politicans or in Beverly Hills. I can assure you that the boss is charging double that in order to have overhead covered. It costs the employer 50% more than a person is paid to keep him--SSA matching payments, Workers Comp, health insurance, and a long list of other benefits usually attached to the highest earners. Who could afford a plumber at $125.00 per hour? I think I'd have to dig an outhouse.

In Christ,

BOB

Amen Amen Amen we cannot afford any leftist socialist at all!!!
Stephanos I

Fr. Stephanos,

What do you think of the claim that socialist is a "code word" for black? I thought it a rather strange argument. Perhaps the author of the argument was confusing Karl Marx with Carl Winslow.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081021115806.aspx

Terry