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I don't know how common it is world wide, but among the many Ukrainian Catholics I associate with, Rosary devotions, belief in Fatima, Purgatory and a fondness for Western Saints such as St Therese of Lisieux, St Bernadette Soubirous and St Francis of Assisi are very common. And while that certainly doesn't mean they're ashamed of their Eastern heritage in any way shape or forum, they would also find it pretty shocking if anyone suggested that by continuing to observe the odd devotion of Latin origin, that they were somehow polluting there Eastern heritage.

It is worth remembering as some folks get idealogical about certain aspects of patrimony that the very "obvious error" of one man is the next man's simple piety that he grew up with.

Iconography is, among other things, a language, and if one is going to speak someone else's language, it is well to follow the rules of that language.

I'm not really sure what you mean here. Isn't Western Catholic art allowed to have its own "language," even if it shares common symbols?

Dear Byzantine TX,

In Toronto, I could point out the parishes where you would get exactly those kind of penances in their confession boxes.

The UGCC is, in terms of rites, similar to Anglicanism with its "High" Byzantine and "Low" Latin parish styles. And then there are the "Middle" parishes who have something of both.

And we in the UGCC like to think of ourselves as a "Via Media" between the Byzantine and Latin Churches.

The ultimate standard for the continuance of these devotions would be their popularity.

For example, even in the most "High Eastern" parishes, it would be common to have the May devotion or a Moleben for every day in May to the Most Holy Theotokos. At St Nicholas' parish in Toronto, the traditional Moleben with the Canon is sung on weekdays and the Akathist is sung on the weekend evenings. But the "Mayivka" is there and there are (many)people who attend it religiously (no pun intended).

On the other hand, why would one want to dissuade people from attending Church in this way? And if traditional Molebens and Akathists are sung - how is that really a Latinization?

Again, what is a "Latinization" comes from an era when such practices were imposed on Eastern Catholics.

No one is imposing them now. Unless one regards it as a form of "Eastern false consciousness" but one would be hard-pressed to maek that argument.

In addition, in Ukraine there are UGCC parishes that regard their Latin devotions as things that kept their identity intact from the ROC during the Soviet era. And UAOC parishes coming into communion with the UGCC today don't seem to find those devotions to be a problem either (many UAOC parishes are wild about the Stations of the Cross.).

Let's also consider that the Sacred Hearts devotion was the mainstay of the spiritual life of our Eastern Catholic New Martyrs, including Bl. Paul Gojdich OSBM, and that they themselves would have considered any move to remove them from our churches to be a real abomination.

Alex

On the subject of what are referred to by some as Latinizations, I have an interesting story,which should be of particular interest for those who think they must be completely eliminated.

At a parish in the Eparchy of St Nicholas, a man I know, who is a life long parishoner, told me they had a Rosary group of 15-20 people who prayed the Rosary every Sunday. I can't say I know every single detail, but after the arrival of a new priest who frowned on the practice, it was discontinued, and it hasen't been said by a group at this church in a couple years now. So, in the interest of restoring original Eastern devotions that had been supplanted by Latinizations, guess what took it's place ? Absolutely nothing !

Dear Lawrence,

Excellent point sir!

There was a UGCC priest from Ukraine on a visit here who was telling me about his village parish's "Forty Hours devotion" and the "Unsleeping Adoration of our Lord in the Sacrament of the Altar" together with the Perpetual Rosary.

His entire parish, which counted for 99% of his village, took turns in doing a Holy Hour of Eucharistic Adoration. Even, he said, the youngest of children had their little booklets and signed up for an hour of adoration, usually before dinner. Others took turns keeping watch throughout the night. People prayed the Psalms, others said the Rosary or made use of the devotions in that booklet he kept referring to. He himself was physically present in the church about 12 hours in every day and longer on Sundays. People wanted to go to confession and other Sacraments/Mysteries, wanted to get his advice on all manner of things and otherwise kept him busy.

When I took his hand, I noticed something funny on his finger.

"That's my ring rosary," he said smiling from ear to ear. "I can't always count on being able to say the whole Rosary so I do it one decade at a time, like St Louis de Montfort advised."

So as not to appear like a "Smart Aleck," I pretended to just have had a passing familiarity with Montfort . . .

Alex

Is that a vote for Latinizations or a failure of the cleric or parishioners to think two steps ahead? If my son, who has an annoying habit of only eating peanut butter sandwiches, has his sandwiches taken away I fully expect I will have to find some substitute. We have the smaller services of the Horologion/Chasoslov, adult and children's formation classes, women's retreats, guest speakers, and icon workshops. This is not even thinking "outside the box" for a solution; it is living our faith out communally infused with deep breaths from our "Eastern lung."

Regarding mixing devotions from different rites, at home, knock yourself out. In church, 'thou shalt not' but pastoral sensitivity (don't bully the rosary group) and education/substitute something native to the rite. As I've written on one of my pages, with the hours (divine office, also a preferable choice for the laity in Western Catholicism) and all the canons, akathists and molebny to choose from, a well-taught Greek Rite Christian doesn't need to borrow anything.

I agree with young fogey. we all know those of whateger Rite using devotions that are not of their Rite, but nonetheless, they benefit from them. more power to them.however, to do so in a public setting would confuse those coming in who have no idea as to what or why this would be going on. I remember offering to provide STS Peter and Paul with an Ikon, but father Schmidt politely pointed out that to display an Eastern Ikon in a Latin parish would cause people to wonder what Rite the parish was.so, just as you would not want to be a stumbling block to someone and cause that person to sin, don't be a stumbling block in your devotions and endeavours to do good. it can happen, folks.
Much Love,
Jonn

In the UGCC at least, I'd say that Latinizations are exaggerated, I know of no one who's pushing them, and as Dr Alex alluded to, those few Latinizations, to many Ukrainian Catholics are now part of there identity.

I think this is a wonderfully informative site, and I really enjoy my time here, but in all honesty, one can sometimes get the impression that Latinizations are running rampant and must be stopped. In reality, after being very active in a UGCC parish for over a year and a half, and visiting a few other parishes, I've still yet to hear my first complaint against them.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but quite often it's the over zealous convert and not the cradle EC, who want's to eliminate everything connected to the Latin Rite. Frankly if someone came into the church I attend and complained about the crucifix in the vestibule, the 5 small statues that are part of the iconastasis, and the prayer cards in the candle room, that mention St Gertrude and the souls in Purgatory, I'd simply take them out to the parking lot (no I'm not violent) and point them down the road to the Orthodox Church, with the added warning to not be shocked that they have pews.

By the way I'm all for restoring Eastern traditions, and would love to see a return to Church Slavonic.

Dear Lawrence,

Congratulations on your "right on" understanding of the UGCC!

It is absolutely true that there is no need to "borrow" anything from the Latin Church. There are religious Orders among us who seem, however, to have trouble distinguishing between Particular Churches. One such Order seems to think that since the "Catholic Church celebrates Our Lady of the Rosary" in October, the UGCC should since it is a part of the said "Catholic Church." They therefore do a repeat of the May devotion in October.

Historically, the Orthodox Church in Eastern Europe, especially during the "Baroque" period did create various public devotions i.e. St Peter Mohyla of Kyiv. In fact, a number of these new developments were done in an effort to prevent people from attending the Latin devotions that seemed to "speak" to them.

In the UGCC and Kyivan Orthodox tradition, these included the "Passia" services in Lent that are, as we understand, popular even in Russia, and the veneration of the Sorrowful Mother (and I've seen a Slavonic translation of this long service on the internet alongside that of the Passia). St Tikhon of Zadonsk (an ethnic Ukrainian) actually had life-size pictures of Christ carrying His Cross to Calvary in his cell, a kind of Way of the Cross.

Our Orthodox St John's Bakery here in Toronto, a Mission to the poor, has its own chapel where the priest has developed his own (quite intelligent) devotion that is not official but that goes a long way to helping people with praying the Jesus Prayer.

Once or twice a day at a designated time, Father joins others in Church to say the Prayer 100 times out loud before the iconostasis. People learn to say the Prayer slowly, following Father's lead. This is something all parishes should do - the effects of this in people's lives are quite dramatic!

Also, perhaps one reason why the liturgical traditions of the East appear to take second place to the Way of the Cross and related paraliturgical devotions is that parishioners see the liturgical prayer as the domain of the clergy alone and/or that it is complicated to use in one's personal prayer life.

Some teaching and training, at the parish level, in the Hours and the Canons and Akathists might be in order. How to do Reader's Services is something that can be exciting. Before I "got the hang of them," I bothered Fr. John Whiteford to no end - he was always gracious and ready to answer my questions while inviting me to ask him more.

Reader Serge (The Young Fogey) has a number of excellent resources on his website and he also has Fr. Deacon Lance's "doable Hours."

So perhaps the ultimate Latinization is the way we see the Eastern liturgical tradition as the domain of the clergy and not as something that belongs to the whole people of God.

Alex

An inspired point. It would make an excellent article in a worthy magazine somewhere.

Alex,

That is it exactly. After all, that is how private devotions developed to begin with: more convenient alternatives to the Liturgy of the Hours for Laity who a) couldn't read, b) couldn't afford books, c) found them too complicated and/or d) didn't have the time.
In fact, I know a lot of people who complain that the Rosary is too complicated.

And, even in the West, a lot of people are "afraid" to say the Office because they think it's only for priests and religious.

As for what the priest said to Jonn, there is a great deal of iconoclasm, of course, in the post-Vatican II West, and I wonder if that wasn't a part of it. I've seen plenty of Latin churches with Icons.

Part of this gets into the differences between Western and Eastern Catholics on different kinds of prayer.

The Rosary is too complicated??? I think that one of the reasons why it has become a sort of "default" devotion for most devout Roman Catholics is precisely because it is so easy, you can recite it even when half-asleep.

As for the Office, well... a priest friend of mine once told me that the majority of the priests he knew did not even recite the Office at all -- a feedback I've gotten from other close friends in the Church as well -- and another priest-friend of mine has admitted to me that he often forgets to recite the Office as well. If that is how the clergy treat the official prayer of the Church, then how much more the laity? Add to that the fact that the public chanting or recitation of the Office is almost unknown in the Roman Catholic parochial and cathedral context.

Finally, regarding the use of icons in Latin churches. I suppose I should like that. After all, churches in Rome and most of Italy (and many churches in the rest of Europe as well) prior to the 14th century were full of Byzantine-derived art!

Oftentimes, though, the present use of icons (or, in many cases, pseudo-icons) in Latin parishes reflects a very real ignorance of their meaning and function. I can't help but feel that sometimes, the icons are there simply to add a touch of the mystical or exotic. "Look how traditional we are... we have a Byzantine icon!"

In my parish, for example, there is a "pseudo-Byzantine" icon of the Theotokos painted by our former parish priest. It is now located in our adoration chapel... on the floor! I know of many other examples.

I think that the worst offender in this has been the Neo-Catechumenal Way, which officially promotes a sort of pseudo-Byzantine iconography for its churches to go along with its guitar-strumming, innovation-laden liturgies. Many of the "New Movements" also like to have icons or pseudo-icons.

I think it also says a lot about the degeneration of Western sacred art (either the modernist horrors done at present or the saccharine devotional statues of ages past) that we Latins often go east to look for good sacred art.