www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Carmelite monks in Wyoming

http://www.carmelitemonks.org/

Here is a link to a new Catholic monastic community that is traditional and growing.

I am reminded when I visit monastic websites of something my grandfather (also godfather) told me when I was very young: "When the monks stop praying (for us), the world will come to an end." I suspect he meant the same things many mystics of both East and West have said about the humble prayers of the monastics are the only thing between us and the Lord's coming anger on Judgment Day.

In Christ,

BOB

This is a wonderful community of monks. I know the founder, Fr. Daniel Mary, personally. Buy their coffee!

How cool in every sense. Glory to God for men like this!

Fr. Deacon Daniel

"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails." (1Cor13:7-8)

I'm always edified by men and women who step up in every age to take on the role of prophetic witness to those things that are REALLY important--the treasure to be laid up in the Kingdom. And I am humbled to think that I could be included in the Communion of Saints with people of monastic stature.

May the Lord God bless them and remember them in His Kingdom, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. AMEN.

BOB

Their coffee is good...

I am amazed that no one commented on "Into Great Silence" which was on EWTN...it replays tomorrow 11:30AM PST

Yes indeed - "Mystic Monk Coffee" - it's worth it! I got some at the Port Tobacco Carmel in Maryland. Brought it home for my mom - she approves.

This Wyoming community, if I recall correctly, has a devotion to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass; a friend of mine knows one or two of their monks and says that they are a healthy community.

Good things are happening in the diocese of Cheyenne - Bishop Ricken is solid, and he is starting a Catholic College in his diocese; my spiritual director has spoken there, and says that things look promising. Pray for them!

I saw the last hour of it Sunday. IT asks you to turn off the world as you watch it. In a way, you find yourself there, experiencing the silence. I liked the end, it showed they are human

I am glad to hear good things about this community. I had an
appeal from them several months ago which gave rise to serious
misgivings about them for the following reasons:

1 No curriculum vitae for Fr. Daniel Mary
was given. Who is he? Where and when did he receive his
formation and to whom make his vows? From whom
did he receive permission to start a congregation of his own?
I was able, through our deacon,to verify that this group is canonically
recognised by the local bishop, but a bishop might have more
than one reason for extending recognition.

2) Their literature and website were both very professionally
done and expensive-looking. Where did this start-up
congregation get the money? They may, of course, have well-off
and generous supporters.

3)The tone of Fr. Daniel Mary's letter (adddressed to me by
name, but he could have gotten that from anywhere) I found
off-putting. It was rather patronizing, but this is a fault
not unknown among the clergy in general. What annoyed me most
was his announcement that his community intended to act as
"spiritual fathers" for us and invited me to send him the
names and addresses of my relatives and friends so that he and
his brothers could become "spiritual fathers" to them, too.
The appeal and the website both have lots of nice color
pictures of the group, which, except for Father himself, seems to
consist of very young men. Teen-aged spiritual fathers? I think
not. Maybe in thirty or forty years. How long did St. Seraphim
of Sarov spend "in the desert" before he undertook to be
a starets ? Granted that there have been those who
have been very young and yet deep in the Spirit (Therese
of Lisieux, for example) but they are very extraordinary cases.

4) It is eccentric, to the best of my knowledge, for Carmelites
to call themselves monks. This is a minor point, but unnecessary
singularity in such a group of unknowns I think imprudent,
especially in view of the other questions their
presentations raise.

5)This house does not appear to have any connections with
the Carmelite "establishment". If not, why not?

My doubts remain, I am sorry to say. We in this country are
in very great need of monastics and I would be happy
to be convinced that these men are the real thing. Can anyone
out there address these issues?

Edmac

Edmac,

From their website subsection entitled "Spiritual Fatherhood," it seems that their conception of it is simply that they devote a large part of their time praying for their spiritual sons and daughters specifically; not necessarily that they are instructing them in the ways of the Faith and in regards to doling out discipline, fasting rules, and penance for their sins, which might be how you understand it/the conventional definition.

Alexis

I am drinking their coffee right now. I haven't had a bad experience with any of their roasts or blends. With my last order I got a sample of their Hazel Nut and I was surprised that it didn't taste like a scientific experiment. The flavor seemed natural.

Terry

"4) It is eccentric, to the best of my knowledge, for Carmelites
to call themselves monks. This is a minor point, but unnecessary
singularity in such a group of unknowns I think imprudent,
especially in view of the other questions their
presentations raise."

The Carmelites were originally hermit monks, before they became friars. There are several other communities of male Carmelite hermits in the U.S.

The National Catholic Register reports:

"The monastery is the inspiration of Father Daniel Mary of Jesus Crucified, M. Carm., previously novice master in the Carmelite Hermitage of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Lake Elmo, Minn. Feeling called to found a new monastery in his native Wyoming, the 39-year-old Father Daniel Mary established contact with Bishop Ricken."

http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/1803/

The Wyoming Carmelite community uses the traditional Carmelite Rite, it's not clear under what authority. It is also somewhat strange since they profess:

"'We keep all the ancient customs of St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila, and I think this is why our community is flourishing,' said Father Daniel, a Carmelite for 15 years. “I think that’s what’s drawing young men right now.'"

But the Discalced abandoned the Carmelite rite for the Roman. So it's not clear to me how those two things fit together.

The group in St. Elmo is also working on a restoration of the Carmelite rite, but as part of the modern English liturgy. They are, if I understand right, directly under the prior general of the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance as is another community of American Carmelite hermits in Texas.

http://www.decorcarmeli.com/Hermits.htm

The monastery in Wyoming is a diocesan monastery and the Bishop of the Diocese attends to the matter of visitations etc. They are not part of the 2 main branches of the Carmelite Order. I suspect they are to be considered as a reform of the reform (OCD's). Sort of like Fr. Benedict Groeschel and his Friars of the Renewal.

The Carthusians have a saying that goes something like this, "We have not been reformed since we were never deformed"...

Guess it can be applied to many things...

And then along came Vatican II and changes came along even for them. They were very lucky to have stayed on track unlike some others.

Thanks to Alexis and Pavel for their information. I will write
to Fr. Daniel Mary to alert him to the fact that his presenta-
tions raised these doubts in my mind and our deacon's.
There may be others who had similar reactions.

It is most encouraging to learn that the order has had many
inquiries and to see how young most of the brothers are. I also
just had an appeal from a small Benedictine house in New England
which has had several inquiries since the Holy Father's visit as well.
Moreover, a couple of months ago
we had a visit from a young man who was about to go off and
try his vocation in the new Benedictine monastery in Clear Creek,
Oklahoma.

Edmac