www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Gifted Pan - a Way to Make Prosphora

The Gifted Pan [thegiftedpan.com]

A friend sent this link to me. It looks like a pretty good way to make prosphora. Has anyone used it before?

God bless,

Fr. Deacon Daniel

I saw it demonstrated at our clergy-laity congress this past July in the exhibit hall. It is a heavy cast iron non-stick pan that has a deep engraved seal and works well. My only reservation is the cost of it, which IIRC was $60+, not including shipping. If you are only producing one prosphora at a time then it is great. Most that produce prosphora for our churches (GOA) do it in batches and make them much larger, since it is just as easy to make five as it is one.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Slava Isusu Khrestu

Hello

Father Nikolaos at our church purchased one and the ladies, especially yiayia, were amazed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They were always worried that the seal on their home made prosforon did not show as clearly but this is excellent as long as you really push dough into the center seal area and then ap add the majority of the dough.

Z Bohom
Nycholaij

As Fr Anthony says, it looks good, but it's so expensive. I'd add that it's obviously for those who follow the Greek Practice rather than the Russian. Russians always use five smaller prosphora for the Proskomedia. But it does look interesting.

Matushka and I make prosphora together. I make the dough and kneed it. She makes the individual loaves, seals, and bakes them. Because we have a Russian tradition parish, we need to make dozens of small "people's prosphora" for individuals and families to buy and present with their commemoration books/lists for each Liturgy. From the priest's and prosphora baker's point of view, being in the Greek tradition was much simpler!

I wonder if any Greek Catholics have this tradition of people's prosphora? Likely candidates would be Russian and Ukrainian Catholics. But from what I hear about the widespread use of pre-cut proskomedia, I wouldn't think people's proshora would fit in to that scenario.

Fr David Straut

I have a general question about the baking of prosphora.

Do you leave the seal on the bread as it bakes so the impression is not obliterated by a rising in the oven?

I guess my experience with baking bread comes from the use of an electric oven which made my bread come out uneven. I was told that a gas oven with its constant, even heat prevents the problems I'd had. I used to bake paschal bread and it would always expand at the top destroying all the ornamentation but leave the middle gummy and "half-baked." (Hey, I've been called half-baked, too. :L) So I wondered about how you'd make sure that the prosphora breads would not have a similar end.

BOB

Bob,

While a gas oven may be the optimum, I have to say that I have never had a problem with an electric oven as long as it had been properly preheated. My seals have always come out well-defined.

As to leaving the seal on while it is baking, no. Most seals are either plastic or wood, and a hot oven will not lend to a long life for the seal or possibly a good tasting prosphora.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony:

Father bless!!

Maybe that's why my wife and mother don't allow me to have sharp objects or operate around heat or fire. LOL Too many projects coming out poorly.

BOB

I first saw this product about a year ago when a flyer for it was mailed to my former parish. I'm all for gadgets and personal creativity, but when I read the rationale for it and see photos of the results, I wonder if it will just be a fad in American Orthodoxy. I have yet to see it in action, so I don't want to condemn it too much.

I see several drawbacks to this pan, both from practical and spiritual/devotional sides.

As Fr. Anthony mentioned, you can only make one loaf at a time. If that is all your parish needs per week, it may be fine, but if you need more, your baking time will increase greatly. At my former parish, the priest and I would have a baking day every few months and make 50-70 Greek-style loaves. This pan wouldn't work for such an endeavor!

If you know the logistics of baking in a pan, a loaf of bread usually "domes" on the top. Since the flat bottom of the loaf becomes the top, I can't imagine a priest trying to do Proskomedia with a loaf that can't even sit still!

Now, I am very sensitive to the problems encountered in baking prosphora. I have baked prosphora since I was 11 years old, and know how it goes. Been there, done that! The best way to overcome problems, like not getting a nice seal, is to do research, and ask other bakers, and practice, practice, practice!

If after all that work just can't get the mechanics of baking prosphora, you may want to try other ministries in the church. We wouldn't make "paint by number" icons so that everyone can have a chance at iconography. (This is the drawback to having a mandatory prosphora baking schedule in parishes!)

Finally, there is an almost liturgical feel to the process of baking prosphora (making the dough, kneading it, rolling it, sealing it, piercing it, etc). I just don't like the thought of the loaf that will be used for the Eucharist baking upside down. Call me a purist.

As an aside, maybe we can invent some sort of cousin to this product for Russian churches: tiny spring form pans for double-layer loaves.

Dave

Ssssshhhhhhh David!

The next thing we will see is a cupcake pan with twelve seals in it.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

that would solve a lot of problems

Seriously though - I've had a hand in trying this [ not for my Parish ]

I have given instruction in how-to-knead using Instant messaging since I have made bread in the past .

To me the huge snag is - just how do you manage to get the seal coming out nice and clean ?

David:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

What a great sense of humor you have.

One of my friends who made Russian style loaves had a freezer with probably a couple hundred or so loaves in it.

Question: how long would you keep these in the freezer?

BOB

Small loaves will keep in the freezer for a month or two.

About good seals: One key to getting a good seal starts with having a nice, firm dough. A dough that is too soft won't keep a crisp seal.

Dave

Given the price I will stick with my wooden seals. Dave is right - the consistency of the dough makes all of the difference in how well the seal "sticks" (pun intended...)

Yes, Father. I thought the price was a bit daunting as well. The end result looks very good, but to make a batch of four or five would require at least an initial investment of $350 or so.

Thanks for the information!

I like the "cupcake" pan idea! ;-)

Fr. Deacon Daniel

Слава Ісусу Христу!

“… necessity is the mother of invention”. Don’t worry about muffin pans, but..

How about a dozen “coasters” embossed with the stamp. When you tandemly stack your two “buns” on your cookie sheet for baking, set a seal on top. This may keep it from developing that “cathedral ceiling” bubble behind the stamp.