www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West specific Orthodox disagreements with the Catholic Catechism

I'm not at all sure in what sense sins are purged from a soul with no body, or in what sort of place or state this would happen. My opinion is that it is essentially an unknowable mystery that lacks any comprehension but still merits our prayers. It is also for this reason, among others, that I would not ascribe to a belief like what I have read about indulgences.

I have a feeling otherwise this may just delve in to the same old arguments, petros/petras, etc.

If I may, let me suggest another topic of brotherly discussion -- that of Eucharistic adoration. I reference paragraphs 1178, 1378, and 1418. For a starter, here is a quote of the first reference:

1178 The Liturgy of the Hours, which is like an extension of the Eucharistic celebration, does not exclude but rather in a complementary way calls forth the various devotions of the People of God, especially adoration and worship of the Blessed Sacrament.

We all understand that there are different accepted Traditions in the universal Church, and that the Rite of Benediction as practiced in the Roman Church is not our Byzantine Tradition prior to the 17th century. But, outside of Divine Liturgy, what are the forms of adoration? Is there a similar Eastern tradition? If I understand correctly the Maronites have a Tradition of Adoration. Do other Eastern traditions have some sort of Akathist, Moleben or Benediction?
If not, are the Divine Liturgy and Presanticifed Liturgy the only generally accepted forms?

Finally, is there anything wrong with the Roman Benediction (within the Latin Church)?

In Christ,
Fr. Deacon Paul

And you say this understanding that the Orthodox Church has in the past written indulgences and sold them?

On the matter of Petrine position... do you really find it that clear cut? Is primus inter pare simply a quaint phrase? How does that jive with the idea of any patriarchy for that matter?

Wikipedia says the following which I think is basically accurate:

Like the Western Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church believes that the only way to be absolved from sins is by the Sacred Mystery of Confession, which in the East is preced by a period of fasting. Because of differences in the underlying doctrine of salvation, indulgences for the remission of temporal punishment of sin do not exist in Eastern Orthodoxy, but until the twentieth century there existed in some places a practice of absolution certificates (συγχωροχάρτια - synchorochartia). While some of these certificates were connected with any patriarch's decrees lifting for the living or the dead some serious ecclesiastical penalty, including excommunication, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, with the approval of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, had the sole privilege, because of the expense of maintaining the Holy Places and paying the many taxes levied on them, of distributing such documents in large numbers to pilgrims or sending them elsewhere, sometimes with a blank space for the name of the beneficiary, living or dead, an individual or a whole family, for whom the prayers would be read.

Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem Dositheos Notaras (1641-1707) wrote: "It is an established custom and ancient tradition, known to all, that the Most Holy Patriarchs give the absolution certificate (συγχωροχάρτιον - synchorochartion) to the faithful people … they have granted them from the beginning and still do."

A Russian Orthodox source says that these certificates were in use among Greek Orthodox until the middle of the twentieth century, and were "certificates which absolved from sins, which anyone could obtain, often for a specified sum of money. The absolution granted by these papers, according to Christos Yannaras, had no connection with any participation of the faithful in the Mystery of Penance, nor in the Mystery of the Eucharist". The same source interprets the Western indulgence also as absolution from sin, not as remission of temporal punishment.

I had read this a while ago. I don't think you would find support anywhere today for absolution certificates, and my guess is they would be seen as a distortion of the church's teaching and an instrument of abuse that was thankfully discontinued.

Dear Friends,

Certainly, the Orthodox Church believes that following Confession and Absolution with Epitimia there is an opportunity for every Christian to perform works of repentance. I have read, and please correct me if I'm wrong, statements in Orthodox Confessions, such as that of Dositheus, affirming this and also that prayer for the dead, especially in the case of those who had not had an opportunity to fulfill such good works following absolution, can be beneficial to them in bringing them closer to God after their repose.

As for actual indulgences, I've tried to find out what "Otpust" means when used in the Orthodox context. For example, there are many Orthodox "Otpusty" in Orthodox Volyn in western Ukraine associated with miraculous, locally-venerated icons of the Most Holy Theotokos.

Is this synonymous with "pilgrimage?" Does it have anything to do with "indulgence" (it would if used in the UGCC context)? Or is it a term inherited from the Eastern Catholics that simply continues in Orthodox usage there?

Alex

St. Peter Mohyla in his Orthodox Catechism speaks of the efficacy of the Divine Liturgy and other prayers offered for the dead.

Which version of his Catechism?

Also my family is from Volynia and no one of the older generations knows the word otpust. We use the term "vidpust" and yes it is for pilgrimages.

I also never heard anything other than "vidpust" except used by the BCCA pilgrimage.

Regarding Mohyla, first Question 64 from Popivchak's translation:


And Question 65:


Lest one presume this is a peculiarity of a Greek Catholic translation, my English translation of the late 1890s with the letter of approval of the Patriarchate of Constantinople is essentially identical to Popivchak's for these two questions.

Any priest can prescribe an act of repentance to be performed after absolution, but I doubt very much anyone would say in what way one could measure the effect of the act or repentance or that the act of repentance in any way removes punishment for our sins.

I have only seen the one that is online, years ago I printed it...

To your knowlege, are their versions of his catechism that do not speak of the efficacy of the DL and other prayers offered for the dead that would make a specific citation of a specific versions needed and relevent?

Dear Friends,

There are TWO versions of Mohyla's Catechism - Mohyla's own, which he sanctioned for use in his own Kyivan Metropolia and the version with amendments approved by the Orthodox Patriarchs (where they definitely removed the word "Purgatory" as one example of an amendment).

"Otpust" is, of course, the Slavonic version and Prof. Poselianin actually lists the many places of pilgrimage and icons in Volyn where such "Otpusty" "Vidpusty" are held.

My question is, however, why "Vidpust" for "pilgrimage?" Why not "proscha" which is what "pilgrimage" means?

Does not "Vidpust" suggest an indulgence of some sort?

I'm asking, not telling, because I do not know.

Alex

Mohyla was a product of his time.

Dear AMM,

So are we!

Alex

I must interject that this view, while common, is not held by all Orthodox - Eastern or Oriental. For example, the Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate maintains the same Biblical passages to emphasize the special authority that Peter and his successors have (which the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch maintains, [originally along with the Pope of Alexandria and the Pope of Rome]).

True, but I think you know what I mean in this instance.