www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Priest: No communion for Obama supporters

Here's another article on this issue:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20081113/NEWS01/811130314

Is the headline correct?

In Joe's reference I saw this:


It seems that he would be asking them to reconcile and abstain from communion until they do, not that he would be refusing communion to Obama voters (which is what I assumed from the headline).

CAUTION!

The Catholic Church does not permit the parish priest to excommunicate anyone; the most he can do is refer the matter to the Bishop. Only the Bishop is permitted to decree someone's excommunication, which is a very serious decision not to be undertaken lightly. The last such case that I can remember in the USA was the excommunication of Leander Perez, who practiced an unusual form of hospitality: he liked to invite African-Americans to come and be guests of honor for dinner in the alligator pits! The Bishop followed the canonical procedure "by the book", including the third warning, and only then did the Bishop pronounce the excommunication.

There was also case of a Bishop attempting to level an interdict on a Maronite parish (this was before the Maronites had their own bishops in the USA) for a bureaucratic reason; as a result for a few months the diocese had the dubious privilege of being the only place in the world with a Maronite parish not in communion with Rome! Then a Maronite bishop came from Lebanon - the people had written to their Patriarch asking for help. When the Latin bishop proved obdurate the Patriarch took it to the Pope, who lifted the "interdict" and had the Apostolic Delegate tell the Latin bishop to cut out the nonsense, right then and there.

Partly for historical reasons, and partly because of human nature, many Catholic people become annoyed or worse when the pastor or the bishop attempts to tell them how to vote. I would suggest that the best Catholic/Christian response to the abortion holocaust is a mass movement (not unlike the Civil Rights Movement) to reach the hearts of the American people. Pragmatically, this is much more apt to succeed than an attempt to prohibit Catholics from voting for the candidate of their preference - especially since the secret ballot remains the law. There is no easy way to win the struggle against abortion; the hard way recognizes and accepts the necessity to reach the hearts of the people and win their acceptance to our fundamental position: abortion is murder.

Fr. Serge

Dear Father Serge,

If a Catholic confesses to his Catholic priest that he has murdered someone, had an abortion, engaged in extramarital or homosexual sex, etc... will the priest not ask him to abstain from holy communion for a certain period of time as penance?

I am quite curious.

Ofcourse depending on the sin, I know that periods of excommunication can differ from jurisdiction, to priest, to monk-priest in Orthodoxy.

Respectfully kissing your right hand,
Alice

Catholic priests are not encouraged to impose a "fast from Communion" for a designated period as a penance. On the other hand, if there is an ongoing pattern of serious sin and the penitent shows no sign or intention of abandoning such a pattern, the confessor will often say something along the lines of "it's up to you; either stop feeding people to the alligators or be honest enough to stop receiving Holy Communion".

But the confessor is forbidden to make this public - only the Bishop can do that.

with every blessing,

Fr. Serge

His methods are in question but I admire his intent.

CDL

I have to agree with Father Serge. I share his concern.

His intent may have been better delivered in "social activism" and a strong homily. Perhaps it would be more effective to form a strong pro-life committee at his church to form prayer lines and train and place sidewalk councilors at local abortion clinics. Even two saves a month will make a big difference to those children who have been given a chance at life.

My priest is very pro life and inserts abortion into nearly every homily, but he has never crossed the line to tell people that they should seek penance if they voted for Obama. I would suspect that he leaves such cases for the confessional or to private teaching.

Would it be much different if Fr. Newman stood up and asked all the women who have had abortions recently to abstain from communion?

Terry

The priest in question has neither denied Holy Communion to, or attempted to excommunicate anyone. What he has done is to uphold the teaching of the Catholic Church.

I know a few priests belonging to Opus Dei, who at every mass, remind the congregation, that Holy Communion is only for Catholics who are in a state of grace, and that if you are not in a state of grace we are always available to hear your confession. And as Father Newman put it "voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

This is, I think a good and proper thing to do. I have heard the same type of thing in Orthodox churches and monasteries. One should be reminded of these things (confession, state of grace, etc.) from time to time.

Frequent communion is a very good thing, but only if it is properly catechised and prepared for. I think its intent has been somewhat abused.

For instance, I know many young Catholic high schoolers who I have seen at school Masses, who I knew were not in a state of grace, receiving communion....I don't know that this was a good thing. It was a given that everyone should receive...and the only ones who did not were the Orthodox students.

Whatever...so much confusion these days, about everything and everywhere....may God have mercy on us all!

In Christ,
Alice

Regarding the Obama thing, I think that is somewhat extreme because politics involve many other issues that are not of the moral realm, though I can see the train of thought.

So why are Obama supporters singled out? McCain is not a pro-life candidate, he also supports anti-life measures. The only true pro-life candidates were third party. SO shouldn't the message be consistent? whether you voted for McCain or Obama - get thee to the confessional!

this priest is a dream come true for the American Athiest Association! For years they have been trying to remove the tax deductible status of religious groups and he's giving them ammo.


off topic...why do posts always indicate that they are in reply to a certain poster when they are only general posts to the thread as a whole?

I recommend that Michael Thoma familiarize himself with the statement on “Faithful Citizenship” issued by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. In a situation where there are no pro-life third party candidates or the pro-life third party candidates do not have a chance of winning one may choose to vote for the candidate that is least likely to advance morally flawed positions. To do so is not a sin. Further, one must honestly compare the beliefs of the two candidates. It is irresponsible to place both Senator McCain and Senator Obama at the same level. Senator McCain is wrong about embryonic stem cell research but supports a human life amendment, and had promised to continue the pro-life accomplishments of the current president. Senator Obama has indicated that on the first day of his presidency he would like to sign the “Freedom of Choice Act” (repealing all federal, state and local laws that in any way restrict abortion, including Partial-Birth Abortion (infanticide) and would immediately issue executive orders to reverse the “Mexico City Policy” which prohibited the use of federal funding to promote abortion internationally.

The formal reference from the “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizensip” is as follows:

The protection of innocent life in the womb (from conception to natural birth) is paramount and outweighs all other moral issues. The protection of innocent life follows close behind (i.e., the immorality of euthanasia). Other issues are important but compared to these are secondary.

This issue has been discussed numerous times and I recommend strongly that Michael Thoma learn what the Church teaches before he leads anyone astray.

Isn't it curious how such groups only go after pro-life speakers in Churches that touch on politics but never go after pro-death speakers who touch on politics? Senator Obama spoke from a number of pulpits during the campaign, as did Senators Clinton, Kerry and before them VP Gore and President Clinton promoted the "choice" to kill children in the womb. Not a peep from these groups! In the end the Church must do what is right, regardless of the penalties inflicted by the state.

Because the way the software is written you are always responding to someone else's post (unless you are the one starting the thread).