www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology St Philip's Fast

Guys and Gals,

I think that modern society that has tended to turn away from real spiritual practice is one of the reasons for the lack of fasting.

Then in all religions you have those who embrace it and you have those who don't.

Personally, I really wish the bishops would challenge us. I think we shouldn't aim for the minimum.

John Gibson

Agreed. Our Church offers us a banquet and we should have the opportunity to partake of all the dishes to enjoy it fully.

Indeed. As Fr. Robert (Anderson) of the Eparchy of Toronto (UGCC) correctly instructs us, this is an important time of preparation.

http://stirenaeus.net/documents/parousia.htm

Thank you for the link, Father Deacon Randy.

Many of the requirements or recommendation for fasting seem rather complex and I can see where a calendar might be necessary to keep it straight. How did such a complex system develop where some days allow certain items and other days they are not permitted? These differences are obviously there for some reason or represent something. I understand the abstinence from meat, but I am not sure how the dairy, eggs, oil, etc. came to pass.

For those on the 'new' calendar, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of the USA has very helpful calendar and for those on the 'old' calendar ROCOR has a good one as well.

Dear all:

This is a most instructive discussion!

I would like to make some observations, though, about the oft-repeated axioms that "we should not be like the Pharisees" when speaking about fasting, about how we should "not be proud", etc. etc.

These are true, all too true. But in these days of incredible spiritual laxity (and I must say that I, too, am very lax -- although I am striving to be better), don't you think that we should be especially careful to actually encourage fasting, and to not say anything that, in the least, might lead to any relaxation whatsoever of what little fasting actually remains?

The Fathers, in their warnings against pride in fasting, were speaking in a context when superhuman feats of asceticism were quite common and easily observable (given the huge numbers of ascetics in their days), and when it was the common rule for ordinary people to keep the fasts. In our day and age, I believe that we need to take a different track. And, I firmly believe that exhorting other people to fast and to comply with legitimate and venerable traditions of penitence, is not being Pharasaical at all, so long as there is no judgement involved upon the interior state of those who would not comply.

Personally, my own observations and my preference for "harder sayings" when it comes to fasting and penance are shaped by my own experiences as a Roman Catholic in the Philippines.

In my country, by decision of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines, fasting and abstinence are mandatory only on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. On the Fridays of Lent, abstinence may be replaced by almsgiving, reading the Bible or saying the Rosary. In practice, I can say that a lot of Filipino Catholics do not even observe these "substitutes".

As for penance during Advent: our long Christmas season begins in November, resulting in all of December becoming a long series of parties and festivities.

During Lent, many priests make it a point to denounce "false piety" and pride in prayers, fasting, etc. I have also heard priests even say that there is no need to fast or abstain at all if "it doesn't help your spiritual life." I have yet to hear a SINGLE Lenten sermon that actually encourages or praises fasting and abstinence -- and I'm a regular churchgoer and I have a long memory for homilies and sermons.

The effect? The near-complete death of fasting and abstinence, EVEN on the two days of the year in which fasting and abstinence are required. In the Philippines, it is not unknown for meat products to be sold even inside Church premises during Good Friday. Some of you may have heard of the "crucifixions" in the Philippines during Good Friday. Well, in the towns where these occur, the "crucified" ones and other assorted penitents often end the day with drinking sessions, and the townspeople often indulge in feasting on roast pigs and other delicacies (to the disgust of Church authorities)

And our fastfood chains and restaurants continue to have a thriving industry in all-meat foods even (and especially) on Good Friday, catering to the people who make pilgrimages on Good Friday morning and noon. In fact, the largest fastfood chain here once had a special Lenten sandwich, only to abandon it (apparently because people continued to buy meat anyway).

My point is simple: please do not embark on anything that might weaken your traditions of fasting and abstinence. You don't want to end up like us!

The sad fact is that when people frequently hear fasting mentioned in conjunction with "Pharisee', "pride" and "hypocrisy", many of them will end up thinking... "there is really no need to fast, then"

Dear Asianpilgrim,

I was actually tempted to ask how many Catholics actually do the substitutions for fasting, assuming that it was probably minimal. I didn't ask so as not to offend anyone. You have answered my question and confirmed my suspicion.

Thank you for admonishing us and sharing the Catholic experience in the Phillipines.

I am sorry that the Catholic church went from one extreme to the other.

When one abstains from meat, one silently, even if for only a moment on Fridays, remembers why they are doing it, and it does put one in a more spiritual frame of mind; atleast for acknowledging it if nothing else

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. All that meat eating which you speak of is not good for one's health! I read one article somewhere that said that meat consumption is one of the highest risk factors for cancer that exist. It creates much inflammation in the body. We Orthodox who fast are actually quite fortunate to have this abstention from meat imposed upon us, as it saves many health bills in the future. Ofcourse, the American meat industry does not want us to know this.

I once happened to be present at an informal gathering when someone mentioned the Protestants to the Coptic Patriarch. His Holiness responded: "you mean those people who eat meat all year round, like dogs?"

Fr. Serge

It's very interesting to me that there are the other fasting periods still observed in the Christian East. The wisdom of having these periods of preparation awes me.

In addition to preparing for the Apostles' Feast in June or the Dormition Feast in August, here you have a period prior to the Incarnation for stopping the treadmill of life and doing some serious reflection.

But beyond that, it seems to me a good time to get back to the place we should have been at Pascha. I admit, as a flawed human being, that all the spiritual gains I may have made--and I leave it to the Lord if there were any at all--seem to wear thin and fall away by the time Pentecost comes around. For whatever reason it seems easier to maintain the strictness of a fasting period, if one observes it at all, than to maintain the gains--again, if any--made during that period once the discipline is slipped off like a harness one might put off.

Has this ever occurred to anyone else?

BOB

You are not alone in this, dear brother in Christ....

I have to admit that my husband and I have felt 'withdrawal symptoms' the first week after Pascha, when all of a sudden, the many church services that had been available to us in the evenings in our parish (complines, akathists, bible studies holy week, etc.) and the difficult discipline of fasting cease abruptly...it is like a spiritual 'ouch'...Ofcourse, we understand that our poor priest needs a well deserved rest, and probably, we do too, but it does tend to start breaking down the spiritual gains and discipline one has achieved.

Alice

ALICE:

Taking this one step further--and I apologize for the tangent of this topic--does it ever occur to anyone that we seem to be better at doing penance and fasting than in celebrating the fact that God came here and adopted us as part of His Family? How come we don't have celebrations that mirror the penitential services of the fasting seasons?

How about Pascha? Greatest question ever faced by mankind--what happens after we die? All those pagan mythologies where people dwelt underground in dark places--mirrors the grave. Along come Jesus Christ, God in the Flesh; tells us by doing, "Fear not, I'm in charge here and in the hereafter. Eye has not seen nor has ear heard the things God has prepared for those who love Him." Gotta love that one.

How about the Incarnation? God became man in order that man might become like God. Is there anything more radical than that? We know we're flawed and this God that came here looking for us is willing to make up in us that which is lacking, to heal that which is infirm, to raise us up so that there is not anyone who lacks dignity whether slave or free, male or female or even children--what a culture shock for the ancient world with this last one, not to mention so many in our own still-broken world. (That fellow lying on the steps in the subway drunk has God-given dignity even if he doesn't realize it. That gal on the corner; she's got it, too.) Beyond the tinsel of this season, no matter how low we might go, no matter how little we might have, no matter what, God came here humbly to hand pick us to be members of His family. Given His eternal life of grace and blessing--NOW--we don't have to wait!!

And I was ungrateful enough this morning to think I didn't like the cold outside. And I was cranky. What does that matter in the face of what is coming in the next month and a half? At the end of my pilgrimage?

I, Jesus Christ, am in charge on both sides of the Veil. Fear not.

In Christ,

BOB

Dear Bob,

As usual, your holy thoughts are profound and welcome...we are so fortunate to have you here to share them with us.

I think that we rejoice on Pascha and on Sundays, and on those feast days that the Church has set aside for us to rejoice...and that we are penitential on those days that the Church has told us to be in that frame of mind in preparation for the rejoicing.

In a perfect Christian world, that would be the real feeling of joy in all the religious holy/feast days like Christmas, Easter, the Annunciation, the Assumption, etc. and would also be the real reason behind our traditional feastings and gatherings on those days...(In Greece, 'panaghiria' or feasts of the Panaghia, which are like big public parties in towns across the country take place on the day of the Assumption/Dormition, for instance)

Ofcourse, this was how the whole 'holiday' gatherings and joy started!

As Tiny Tim, in Dicken's Christmas Carol said at their Christmas meal 'And God bless us, one and all' !!

Your sister in the Lord Jesus Christ,
Alice

I think that the Catholic Church looks at it the other way. Instead of proposing the maximum that the Orthodox Church does. The Catholic Church, being more "legalistic," tells us what the minimum is and if we so desire, we can always do more.

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I've read that the Okinawans have to most octogenarians and centenarians per capita. I have also read that their dirty little secret is that they eat a lot of pork!

http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/026/e/pork.html

Since today is the Feast of the Entry of the Most Holy Mother of God into the Temple, do Byzantine Christians feast or fast?