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#59939 10/24/06 09:53 PM
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Hello! I am a female Byzantine catholic and my fiance is Roman Catholic. I didn't expect to have any problems getting married in the Byzantine Church even though we are of different rites. We picked a date of Dec 8. 2007. After several attemptsof trying to contact my offical parish, we called and cahtedral for our archeparchy. The preist there first informed us that Weddings in the Byzantine rite do not often occur during Advent. Is this possible? Does anyone have any suggestions on how to go aobut handling this situation confused


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By tradition, weddings are not celebrated during the Winter Lent or Great Lent.
So yes, it is true.

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is this actually for byzantine catholics? i have never heard of this before. could you please give me some references for this, such as the catechism of the catholic church?


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Quote
Christmas Fast

In the newly promulgated Norms of the Particular Law of the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church sui juris of Pittsburgh, Canon 800 �2 re-establishes the observance of the traditional Philip Fast in preparation for Christmas beginning November 15 and ending December 24th.

All the Faithful of our Eparchy of Van Nuys, therefore, are to keep the fast period in preparation for the celebration of Christmas.

For the Eparchy of Van Nuys, the Fast is to be thus observed:

1) The first day of the fast (November 15th) is to be kept as a day of abstinence from meat and meat products.

2) Abstinence from meat is to be observed on the Wednesdays and Fridays of this Fast season.

3) The Vigil of Christmas (December 24th) is to be observed as a Day of Strict Fast, that is, abstinence from meat and all dairy products.

4) The faithful are encouraged to perform other acts of penance in keeping with the spirit of the Fast.

5) It is recommended that the Faithful be especially mindful of the poor among us by contributing to special charities to help the hungry and needy, in particular by collecting food and clothing for the needy, volunteering time at a soup kitchen or taking part in other like endeavors.

6) Parents are to instruct their children in the meaning of this fasting so as to help them observe the fast in preparation for Christmas.

7) Those who are sick or in precarious health are exempt from the Abstinence and Strict Fast aspects of this penitential season.
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The Preparatory Season for the
Nativity of Our Lord - The Phillipian Fast

Rev. Msgr. Russell A. Duker
Archdiocese of Pittsburgh

The oldest Christian feast is the Resurrection of our Lord (Pascha). This Holy Day includes a whole cycle of feasts such as the Ascension and Pentecost. It is the great feast of our redemption and sanctification. Later Holy Days followed slowly until the fourth century. After the Church won official recognition and full freedom of worship and evangelization, our present calendar of festal celebration began to develop. This development was motivated by the Church's desire to honor both the events in the life our our Lord and the memory of the holy martyrs. Eventually the Church established a full year Christian calendar.

We are familiar with the preparatory period before the Resurrection. This is the "Great Fast" or the "Holy Forty Days' Fast". The celebration of the birth of our Lord cannot be ascertained before the middle of the fourth century. The Church at Rome was the first to celebrate our Lord's birth. Many think that the date of December 25 was chosen to supplant the feast of the god Mithra and the solemn celebration of the birth of the invincible sun god. Others think that the date was chosen for the same reason that the Roman pagans honor the victory of the sun. It is around this date that the sun overcomes the darkness and the days become longer. Several times the prophets call Jesus Christ "Sun of Justice." It was deemed proper to choose the day when the sun begins its victorious cycle of light by shortening the duration of the night.

According to some sermons of St. Gregory of Nazianzus, he introduced this feast into the Eastern Church about the year 379 or 388. After his departure from Constantinople the celebration of Christ's Nativity on December 25 was neglected. In 395 Emperor Honorius reinstituted the celebration. St. John Chrysostom tells us how he introduced this feast at Antioch sometime around 380. He explicitly says how he introduced it in imitation of the Church at Rome. St. John believed that the Roman Christians knew the date of Christ's birth better than anybody else since the imperial city archives were accessible to them.

The first mention of a preparatory period before Christmas is mentioned in a decree of the Council of Saragossa (380). The Council Fathers stated that every Christian should daily go to church from December 17 until the Theophany (January 6th). At the Synod of Mac (581) in present day France it was decreed that from November 11, the day of St. Martin, until December 24 every Christian should fast 3 times a week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday).

Our pre-Nativity period of preparation developed rather late. Scholars do not agree about the exact time it began. Some hold that it began in the sixth century. Others believe it began in the seventh or eighth century. The present liturgical pre-Nativity season was finally established at the Council of Constantinople (1166). The Council decreed that the fast would begin on November 15 and last until December 24 inclusive. Thus, there was created another 40 day fast.

The pre-Nativity fast is often called "Phillip's Fast" because it begins on the day after the feast of St. Phillip. The fast was introduced to prepare the Church for a worthy celebration of the great and holy day of the Birth of Christ. The regulations for the fast were far more lenient than the Great Fast before Pascha. Only Monday, Wednesday, and Friday were days of strict fasting without meat, dairy products or oil (in Slavic countries). On Sundays fish was permitted. Lay people were at first permitted to eat fish on other days, too, until the monastic rigoristic influence prevailed. It is interesting to observe that the famous 12th century Byzantine canonist Balsamon expressed the opinion that it would be enough if the lay people fasted only one week before Christmas. In 1958 a modern Greek author, Christos M. Enislides, welcomes Balsamon's suggestion and believes that the best solution would be for the Church at large to abstain from meat and dairy products for 33 days. During the last seven days of the fast everybody should observe the strict fast.

To worthily meet our Lord and Savior, we should sanctify this pre-Nativity season of the Phillipian Fast. Sanctifying means spending our time in faith and in the service of God and in kindness towards our neighbor, especially those who are in need of our assistance. And we should think of what we would have been had Christ not come to our lowliness and poverty. Together with the whole of the Byzantine Church we should try to meet Christ as he deserves to be met and as it will, in His mercy, best serve our spiritual benefit!

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I suppose you could force a wedding through, either by getting the Roman priest to do it or by finding a priest who will do it - but since you and your family should be fasting, it'd be a wine-less, oil-less, celebration-less wedding...

Why not move it up to Nov. 8th?

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Hello, thanks for all the information. i thought i knew alot about my byzantine catholicism but apparently i don't know as much as i think i do:-)I definitely want o be married in the Byzantine Catholic CHurch. Are there any "pre-can" types of classes in philadelphia, or any priests/deacons that are indicated for premarital counseling? I went to Roman Catholic school through grade school, and then to a Ukrainian Catholic high school, that mostly had roman catholic students. Any information on the spritiually- and religiously corrct way to prepare for marriage would be appreciated. btw, couldyou introduce yourselves to me? I am a 3rd year medical student in phildelphia, and I am a leader for the Philadelphia chapter of the Catholic Medical Student association. cool


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My name's Michael, live in Chicago.. I'm not a Byzantine, but I belong to the Malankara Catholic Church...

This website is very helpful, if you want information about anything Catholic (especially Eastern) many of the site's blessed Fathers are very knowledgeable.

Father Anthony and Father Serge always have correct information and orthodox teaching.

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how do i get ahold of either father?


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OH they will just show up biggrin

If for some reason they don't just place their names in topic down at the 'town hall' and they will notice. Just list your question with it.

Welcome to the forum.

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My thanks to Michael Thoma for his kind endorsement! It is certainly contrary to our tradition to hold a wedding during the fast which precedes Christmas - or to hold a wedding between Christmas and Theophany.

But there is a larger consideration here. It is unwise to set the date for one's wedding (or two's wedding? No one can have a wedding by himself or herself, obviously!) without consulting the Priest. There can be any number of reasons why such-and-such a date is not suitable for the Church.

Many dioceses - probably most of them in the USA - have programs of preparation for marriage, and require that the prospective bride and groom take part in such a program; this is certainly a legitimate exercise of pastoral care (especially if we remember that while the Church requires us to do certain things in order to get married, the Church makes it very much harder for us to get "unmarried" - the old saying "marry in haste; repent at leisure" is particularly true if one gets into a Christian marriage without adequate preparation).

I realize and appreciate that medical students have stressful demands on their time already, and that the date for the wedding in question may have been chosen prudently to avoid complicating the demands of medical school any more than necessary - it is at least possible that had this been brought to the attention of your parish priest in good time (meaning at least three months before the requested date) he might have considered it appropriate to ask the Bishop to give a blessing for the wedding to take place during the fasting period. Again, that highlights the need to involve the parish priest as early as possible in the process of planning the marriage.

Hope this is at least of some help.

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Fr Serge ,

I hesitate to throw a spanner in the works but I fear that a wee bit of the Original post seems to have been overlooked

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We picked a date of Dec 8. 2007.
She also said

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We picked a date of Dec 8. 2007. After several attemptsof trying to contact my offical parish, we called and cahtedral for our archeparchy.
It does seem to me that she has given a date some looooong time ahead and it would be possible , I expect , to make some adjustments - but surely here the stumbling block is the lack of communication from her "official" Parish

Any ideas for her on getting the Parish to actually talk with her wink

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Most of our parishes are small enough that someone who comes regularly to the Divine Liturgy would certainly be known to the Parish Priest. I trust that this would include at least the parents of the bride-to-be, if not the young lady herself.

Not knowing the circumstances, I can't say much more. But if a genuine parishioner is seriously unable to arrange an appointment with her parish priest for the purpose of preparing for Matrimony, I would suggest calling this matter to the immediate attention of the diocesan bishop, because preparing people for matrimony is definitely a part, and an important part, of the parish priest's responsibilities.

Fr. Serge

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I had this problem when trying to plan my own wedding of not being able to get in touch with the priest of my home church. He would respond to my parents when they were there, but I either had to be content doing everything through them or just not get it done. On the priest's part it was not intentional or malicious, but he just was too busy.

If this is the situation you find yourself in, I would recommend having your current priest call on your behalf. He can speak to the priest and make some preliminary arrangements. Is your current pastor behind you? He probably has more leverage to get things moving.

I have some Orthodox friends who insisted that their wedding be during Advent. They had to church shop for several months to find a priest willing to do it, then they ended up in this tiny chapel that couldn't even hold all their immediate family members. They sacrificed their friends and families attending, as well as a connection to the church or priest, in order to have that date. The wedding was also, as someone above stated, "wine-less, oil-less, celebration-less." In the end, they got what they wanted as the date was their priority. So I'm sure it is possible for an EC as well, as long as you are willing to compromise the other points. It really comes down to priorities.

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By tradition, weddings are not celebrated during the Winter Lent or Great Lent

this is also the ancient western practice.
Please see marriage data taken from parish records of Ourense, Galicia diocese in the book:


Regulating the People: The Catholic Reformation in Seventeenth-century Spain by Allyson M. Poska [books.google.com] Regulating the People: The Catholic Reformation in Seventeenth-century Spain
by Allyson M. Poska

This book also mentions strict fast/abstention during lent and advent from no animal products whatsoever, except for fin fish & shell fish.

Where ancient byzantines criticized latin fasting it may have been for lack of ferial abstention on wednesday? I am uncertain. Somehow the west may have had less strict fast but I dont know the details, clearly compared to the present day the west was much stricter 500 years ago.

I still have good spanish lenten stew recipes which would fit well into any eastern cookbook.

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But there is a larger consideration here. It is unwise to set the date for one's wedding (or two's wedding? No one can have a wedding by himself or herself, obviously!) without consulting the Priest. There can be any number of reasons why such-and-such a date is not suitable for the Church.

In 16th c Galicia, Spain's villages this was also true. Weddings were community events not the property of private decisions

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Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
My thanks to Michael Thoma for his kind endorsement! It is certainly contrary to our tradition to hold a wedding during the fast which precedes Christmas

This was also the tradition of the Latin Church no weddings during advent or lent or any 1st or 2nd class feast such or Holy Day sadly since Vatican II this has been dispensed with frown



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