www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Non Christian Names

Dr Eric, there are a few names in the list that are really only used by Muslims. For example, I don't think you'd find any Christians called "Fatima".

My baptismal name is William but early in life I found it hard to relate to a St. William. I adopted St. Matthew as a patron as I was born on the Latin feast of St. Matthew. Doing a sort of vice versa to my eastern brothers of the same name I can also look to St. Basil as a patron.

And as a sidebar.
I was recently asked by my nephew to be his sponsor at Confirmation. I attended a meeting for sponsors and the pastor expressed that the directives for the Rite of Confirmation prefer that the name given at Baptism be used at the time of Confirmation and if possible the Godparent of the person to be confirmed stand as his/her sponsor. If the candidate for Confirmation was not given a Christian name at baptism, then a Christian name should be selected for Confirmation. The pastor pointed out that the Eastern Church confers baptism and confirmation at the same time and to signify the link between these sacraments the use of the baptismal name at confirmation is preferred. This was new to me but made perfect sense.

Thank you Dr. Eric, I wish this was so simple - follows my humble comments...


*** religious neutral = Used by Muslims as well because it was mentioned in their book, thus cannot be used as christian name. ***

While unlikely to be of any help to my brother, Eli, I'd like to note a potential source for the benefit of Father David and others who might be seeking patronal names from the period of the undivided Church. One of our members, Father Ambrose, who recently began actively posting here after an absence, is the owner of an e-list that daily delivers the names and a brief life of first millennium Saints of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany, England, Cornwall, and Isle of Man whose feast occurs that date. (I notice that he's now added the ability to receive such on the corresponding Julian Calendar date.)

One can sign on to have this free daily e-mail by visiting

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints/

Many years,

Neil

This is intriguing.

So, let me get this straight, bear with me I have been up for 24 hours now... Are you telling me that a person could not use a name like Ibrahim because the Muslims also use it?
Didn't you write earlier that one couldn't give someone a Christian name because it would mark him? (I trust that bit of information.) Is it the 17 hour day I had in the OR and the lack of sleep that is making me not get this? If you name your son (I don't know your age, you may be too young yet) Haroun or Yusef and you and your family know that it is his Christian name, yet all the Muslims think it is for one of the Prophets mentioned in the Koran as well, that's not acceptable?

I think we have a cultural difference, you and I and I'm trying to glean what I can over the internet. Thanks for dialoging with me!

Dr. Eric,

Ibrahim is Arabic, but religiously neutral - the Bishop of the Chaldeans in Detroit is His Grace Bishop Mar Ibrahim

Dear Dr. Eric,

The whole Arabic Christian name started when I claimed that there are no Arab Christian names (YET), and most names in Arabic that are considered by you and me to be as such, are probably neutral. Also translation of Names that are not of a Semitic origin will sound foreign to the Arab ear. Thus it is impossible for an Arab to use a Christian name and not lose part of his cultural identity - which is important to some.

Ibrahim is used both by Muslims and Christians (Arabs). The name, originated from Hebrew, is written in the Quraan, that's why many Muslims use it as well.

In countries like Egypt and Iraq someone named "Goerge" is definitely tagged and most probably persecuted for his Christian Origins. Someone named Ibrahim, Sliman or Yousef will get away with it due to the fact that these names are very much common among Muslims.

My argument is that even those names are not Arabic as they are not of Arabic origins - in addition they have lost their added Christian connotation as they are also used by Muslims.

Hence, the first claim, which started the whole thread, that Christian names should be always used for Children in my eyes is invalid as it both jeopardizes the Cultural identity and in some cases the lives of those that carry it. Having a baptismal name is the best solution, and raising our children with both names seems like the fair solution ( God and Caesar ). Having said this however, it annoys me that so many people in my culture are using foreign names not knowing their true meaning, losing both their own cultural heritage and Christian identity.

Hope you will have some rest dear Doc.

OK. I have some food and caffeine in me now and get the point. I would argue, however, that using Semitic names like those of the Patriarchs is using Christian names.

Furthermore, since we have people like Madonna, Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchens, et. al. I'd say that the Christian name has lost its connotations here in the West as well. But the names still have meaning and that is what I think is important, along with choosing a Patron for the child. Giving ones child a Medieval profession or a Gaelic surname for his personal name is not a good idea. Contrast William Edward Royal from the Denver Broncos with Plaxico Burress of the New York Giants if you will. (Yes, I'm straining the metaphor to get my point across.)

Dr Eric,

following on from Eli's description, there are ways around the persecution problem.

As you are aware, many of the Hebrew names from the Bible actually meant something in Hebrew; i.e., people were literally called "Strength", "Faith", "God's protection", etc.

So it is in Arabic today. My wife's name is Magda, the feminine of the masculine Magid, both of which mean 'glory'. Our good friend is called Kaamil, which means 'perfection'. That is how the Christians in Arabic countries carry names showing they faith in God, without allowing themselves to be singled out for persecution. They of course are given names like Miriam ('Mary') or Guirguis ('George') when chrismated.

In Lebanon, where the Christians are not persecuted as they are in other Arab countries you'll meet men with names like "Bishara" ('Annunciation', similar I suppose to the Greek Pannagiotis), "Faadi" ('Redemption').

Food for thought: Was Francis, George, Demetrius, Catherine, etc. always Saints' name? No, they became Saints' names because of the the type of life the person who carried it lived. Thus, these names became worthy of honor, and we name our children after them in hopes that they emulate that Saint. I think that this is a fine tradition, but keep in mind that just because someone is named McKenzie that they are not going to live a holy life. Perhaps we should encourage our children to become saints in their own way, and we might have a St. McKenzie one day.

Dear Matta,

That was the point I was trying to make in my sleep deprived state. I don't think I came across well. Thanks for the bit of information!

No, but the tradition developed that one should take one of these holy names to emulate these heroes of the faith. We Catholics follow Tradition and our little traditions.

Exactly what I said a few posts ago - I agree - I want my "Abdulla" to turn out a saint one day and make that Arabic name into a proper Saint's name - Amen.