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from a www.nytimes.com [nytimes.com] article about a proposed Mormon temple for my town a decade ago. I haven't seen it, so I am guessing that it did not pass the town board...what I am reading here (which I made bold) about their religion shocks me:



Mr. Bushman said that, at one time, Mormons had to travel to the only temple in Salt Lake City to perform three rituals called ordinances. The ordinances are special marriage ceremonies, said to unite, or seal, a husband and wife for eternity; vicarious baptisms, performed by living Mormons standing in for the dead, and what is called an endowment ceremony.

The endowment ritual, which, Mr. Bushman said is repeated many times each day in each temple, consists of the replaying of a two-hour film or re-enacting a cosmic drama about "the creation of the world, the coming of humans and their struggle to obey God's laws and to find their way back."

Mr. Bushman said: "There's always the fear that Mormons will descend on a new temple like people flocking to Disneyland. But this will be a small temple, and temples are not open on Sundays or Mondays." He added that even at the larger Kensington temple, "The cars are staggered all during the day, and the neighborhood isn't flooded by them."

John R. Stone, president of the New York stake of the church -- an organizational unit like a diocese -- said the rooms that make up the core are standard in all temples, but the temple's facade should "complement the surroundings." "There is no one Mormon look," he said. "The San Diego temple is quite modern; the Kensington temple is classic." The one constant of exterior design, Mr. Stone said, is "a spire, topped by a golden figure, the angel Moroni."

The proposed New York and Massachusetts temples replace another proposed temple formerly planned for Hartford. Mr. Stone said those plans were scuttled about a year ago when church authorities decided that the Boston and New York sites were nearer to the areas of greatest growth."

The Mormon church is one of the fastest growing in the world, with 9.4 million members and 22,000 congregations worldwide. There are currently 4.7 million members in the United States. Using young missionaries and family-to-family proselytizing, Mormons are experiencing their greatest growth in Latin America, Russia and Eastern Europe and have begun to reach out to minorities in this country.

Mormons feel they follow a "restored" or corrected form of Christianity. Their sacred books are the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which they believe was revealed to their founder, Joseph Smith, in upstate New York 166 years ago.

Deliver us, Good Lord! That said, here are a couple of things to take into account:

There are relatively few Mormon temples. Local congregations have some sort of premises for worship services, although there are some services which can only be done in a full temple.

Their strange habit of "baptizing the dead" has led to the Mormons developing a remarkable and useful collection of genealogical information. They are generous in making this resource available to researchers who are not connected to their particular religion.

There is a veritable plague of Mormon "missionaries" from the USA here in Ireland. Two of them came to call on me; I invited them in and sat with them in my living room, until all of a sudden, having introduced themselves by title and surnames, they had the effrontery to address me, in my own home, by my unadorned Christian name. At that point I explained that they had just violated a fairly basic rule of good manners, and asked them to leave immediately.

Fr. Serge

I was surprised to learn that they have a Temple - or some religious complex even in Jerusalem!!

hummf!
Deliver us, Good Lord!

Yep.

My dh and I left the Mormon church a few years ago. His family is still very active. The "deeper" beliefs, like the temple endowment, etc. are pretty shocking and they don't talk about details. My husband, a former missionary, did go through the temple, but I never did. We left before having our marriage "sealed". As a convert, when I did find out about the temple ceremonies, and things like the sealing and the "garment" I was very shocked.

This is a good site for info on the temples. http://www.lds-mormon.com/mormon_temples.shtml All pretty accurate.

And there are actually quite a few temples, plus a few more that have been announced. http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/operating/

There is some evidence that they are not growing as fast as they claim, or have as many members as they claim. There are actually a lot of people leaving as well.

This should hardly be surprising, considering:

• The initial revelation received by Joseph Smith was from "golden tablets" that conveniently vanished once he had "translated" them (only a few people could testify to having seen them)
• All Mormonism is predicated on the North American Indians being descendants of the "Lost Tribes of Israel," which the science of genetics has now thoroughly disproven
• Some later Mormon "revelations" were "translated" from authentic ancient Egyptian papyri that Joseph Smith had acquired; however, once it became possible to translate hieroglyphics later in the 19th century, these were proven to be simple business records, not even remotely reflecting Smith's "translation"
• Oh, yes--let us not forget that the official "prophets" of the LDS church have flatly contradicted each other (notably over the issue of polygamy), all the while claiming to bear God's infallible revelation

I think the main thing the Church can learn from the success of Mormonism is that "modern man" and his supposed rationalism is largely a myth--we must not be "ashamed of the Gospel" for this or any other reason.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Mormonism is living proof that people can and will believe anything. Unfortunately, our self-absorbed eastern churches haven't done a lot to convert them - or others, either.

Dear Friends,

Mormons have tried for aeons (no cosmic pun intended) to get their "baptism" recognized as a Christian baptism - to no avail.

Although their missionaries will often deny it, they are "tritheists" and their theology actually resembles a form of Arianism espoused by Ulfilas of the Goths. So, for them, God the Father is greater than His Son. Their views on the Incarnation are simply blasphemous, period.

Their founder was previously convicted for . . . fraud. The idea that he wrote his revelations behind a curtain so no one could see and that this constituted "holy writ" is . . . nonsense.

The problem with speaking to them (or Jehovah's Witnesses) and others of that ilk is that they are a closed society whose only valid sources of authority are their own. Mormons are not as educated in their own theology as others, so they will, in a lengthy conversation, appear to change or even "make-up" from what I could tell their views as they go along (no matter how much one studies their doctrines, there appears to be no real consenses - especially when the goal is to make a convert).

During World Youth Day, Mormons here had a hospitality table for visiting Catholic youth to our city. Two Mormon elders approached me in the street and I quickly went onto that subject and thanked them for showing such charity toward Catholics during the Pope's visit. They said they admired the Pope and Catholics. And we went on from there, but Pope John Paul the Great gave me the advantage!

They did ask me if I was a cradle Catholic, the argument being that cradle anything is a disadvantage since it didn't give one the opportunity to really "choose" the faith one wanted to be committed to. When asked if they were "cradle Mormons," they replied they were, so I told them that, given their earlier argument, I could now give them an overview about the Catholic faith that circumstances prevented them from learning about . . .

They believe the Bible, but only as it is interpreted by their Mormon books which they really value more highly. They do believe that Christianity was in error until a date in 1831 (?) when Joseph Smith came along.

One reason why they are so popular is because of their emphasis on community which speaks loudly to many in our society who feel disconnected from traditional family and other social ties. Their emphasis on lay ministry and welcoming congregations is also an important "pull" factor. Their theology is one permeated by rationalism and as Cardinal Newman said, "carnal minds will forever create a carnal religion."

The best approach to deal with them (better not to however) is to go after the person of their founder and where he got his information. The more one goes after him and questions his credibility, the better. They start to feel self-conscious about it, unable to truly address the holes in that entire story and they will go away.

But the best way is to NOT engage in discussions with them as they, and Jehovah's Witnesses, are trained in ways of psychological persuasion.

The truly positive side to all this is that such encounters should inspire in us greater zeal to read and study the Bible and the other sources of our faith.

Alex

I drive a late-model Miata, and being past six foot-two, the top is down unless the wind is high or it is raining hard off the freeway. People frequently roll down windows to ask about it or talk to me.

One day, though, it wasn't the car. The twit presumed to identify himself as "Elder Whosamsudge," to invite me to his Sunday mormon services. This memory prompted by their rude treatment of Fr. Serge . . .

Then there was my college roommate (we were in a house) who listened to the JWs and Mormons, eventually managing to invite them at the same time . . . (I decided that was a good day to be elsewhere . . .)

And the JWs who appeared on my doorstep in law school. They didn't both fit, it was early, and in a less than charitable moment, I left them there while talking to them through the screen in my bathrobe. This pair's basic trap was apparently to get their victims to either accept that the Old Testament was absolutely literal or "just a story." They were utterly baffled that I accepted the absolute truth of the OT without accepting it literally; they had apparently never encountered the notion before. (????)

So (I mentioned it being a less than charitable moment) I asked them which account of Creation I was supposed to accept literally.

"There aren't two accounts."

Uh, yes, the seven days version and Adam and Eve.

"Uh, you mean Genesis One and Two?"

I'm not sure on the numbering, but that sounds likely.

"One is the older older account, the other what Moses wrote."

I see. And why do things happen in different orders?

"No they don't"

I think I ended it about there.

Hm, this ended up being more about JW's than Mormons, but I guess you take your Arians as you find them . . . (A variation on the "eggshell head plaintiff" rule of british common law)

hawk

One trick seems to work with either group. Open the door, smile effusively, and say "Oh, I'm so glad you're here! Do come in! There's a nice roast beef in the oven, that will be ready to eat rare in a few minutes. I'll make a fresh pot of coffee, we'll say a little prayer together, and then we'll have dinner. After dinner we can share some very good cigars!"

Well, they won't pray with you, they won't drink coffee, and they won't eat the rare roast beef! At this point you say that you're so sorry your hospitality isn't good enough for them, but do come again sometime. They won't!

Fr. Serge

Dear Alex,




Interesting point.

******************************************************************

Dear Father Serge,


Brilliantly witty as usual, and very good advice!

Fortunately, where I live in New York there is a lack of interest and no fascination whatsoever in changing one's religion--as my neighbors are largely cradle Irish and Italian heritaged Catholics, Jews, and a sprinkling of Greek Orthodox, whose religions and communities define who they are. I am presuming these groups KNOW not to approach. They would probably not get the time of day from any of them, I dread to say.

Alice

Hawk,

That would have been worth an admission fee to see.

Many years,

Neil

One can, of course, tell these people that one has a perfectly good religion already and has no interest in whatever the uninvited guests are pushing, and then close the door firmly.

Makes me understand why some countries have laws against this sort of thing. It is reasonable to make your particular beliefs available in some sort of place where people may enter voluntarily if they so desire, but summoning you to your own front door and attempt to engage in a protracted discussion, regardless of what else you may be doing, or may have planned, is a serious imposition.

Here's an idea: have a phony leaflet printed on the perfection of Mithraism (a defunct religion best known for sacrificing cows) and on it give an equally phony address (the city zoo, for example). Pass this out to any unsolicited callers. I predict that the number of unwanted visitors, especially those who want you to join their religion, will diminish drastically.

Fr. Serge

It must have passed, for here it is:

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/manhattan/

PERTINENT DATA
Location: 125 Columbus Avenue, New York, New York, United States.
Phone Number: 917-441-8220.
Exterior Finish: Light, variegated granite.
Number of Rooms: Two ordinance rooms and two sealing.
Total Floor Area: 20,630 square feet.
Announcement: 7 August 2002
Groundbreaking and Site Dedication: 23 September 2002
Public Open House: 8 May–5 June 2004
Dedication: 13 June 2004 by Gordon B. Hinckley

Temple Locale

Located at the intersection of West 65th Street, Broadway, and Columbus Avenue, the Manhattan New York Temple stands among some of New York City's most prominent landmarks including the Lincoln Center, home of the renowned Julliard School, and Central Park. The temple proper occupies the top three floors of the edifice while the baptistry operates on the first floor; a meetinghouse spans the third floor, and the second floor houses a public affairs office and distribution center.

Temple Facts

The Manhattan New York Temple was the second high-rise temple of the Church, following the Hong Kong China Temple (1996).

The Manhattan New York Temple was the second temple built in the state of New York, following the Palmyra New York Temple (2000).

The Manhattan New York Temple was the third temple built from an existing building, following the Vernal Utah Temple (1997) and the Copenhagen Denmark Temple (2004). The temple is a renovation of a multi-purpose stake center building, which was built in 1976. The building was soundproofed and completely gutted on most floors.

The joint announcement of the Boston Massachusetts Temple and the White Plains New York Temple (later called the Harrison New York Temple) replaced the Church's previously announced plans to build a temple in Hartford, Connecticut, to serve both New York and New England.

President Gordon B. Hinckley read from his journal at a member meeting, testifying of the inspiration of the Lord in locating a temple for the New-York-City-area saints in Manhattan, noting that the efforts of the previous six years to build a temple in Harrison, New York, had repeatedly met the strong opposition of neighbors.

Door handles shaped like the Statue of Liberty torch are found throughout the Manhattan New York Temple.

The Manhattan New York Temple received exceptional media coverage, including international coverage, largely due to its location in one of the most influential cities of the world.

The widely publicized public open house of the Manhattan New York Temple was attended by over 53,000 guests.


Temple History

In a special regional conference held in New York City on March 24, 2002, President Gordon B. Hinckley told the attending congregation that he expected a temple to be completed in New York within two years. Less than five months later, the Church's announcement of a temple to be built in Manhattan made good on that promise.1

In a clever adaption, the Church gutted and soundproofed the upper and lower floors of its existing multi-function Manhattan building, located across from the Lincoln Center, to secure a location for the temple in the city. The original building was completed in 1976 during a transition period for the area from rough to ritzy. This hise-rise approach to temple building was first pioneered in Hong Kong where real estate costs are exorbitant.2

In the decade preceding the temple dedication, New York area membership increased dramatically, tripling to 42,000. The rapid growth was largely attributed to immigration and aggressive proselytizing in black and Latino communities.3

Over 53,000 visitors from all walks of life and religious backgrounds attended the 40-minute tour during the monthlong open house. Though some mild sidewalk protesting was seen in the form of anti-Mormon literature, public reaction was highly positive, and media coverage was worldwide.4

Prior to the temple dedication, a cast of 2,400 New York youth gathered at Radio City Music Hall to perform "A Standard to the Nations," a two-hour jubilee performance full of song and dance, which briefly illustrated the history of the Church in New York and recognized the cultural mix there. President Gordon B. Hinckley started the custom of asking young adults to participate in cultural arts programs to celebrate temple dedications as part of his quest to make church more engaging for youth. New York youth kept the tradition going, following the example of members in Alaska, Ghana, and Denmark, who performed before their temples' dedications.5

At the temple dedication, a time capsule was placed in the cornerstone filled with New York memorabilia including a commemorative gold-detailed white satin handkerchief patterned after a handkerchief Joseph Smith commissioned for the dedication of the Kirtland Temple. The capsule also contained a copy of the New York Times, a commemorative crystal, a set of LDS scriptures, sheet music, and more.6

Just two-and-a-half weeks before the temple's summer dedication, the Church announced that it would be adding a steeple and statue to the building that fall. Hundreds of onlookers filled the streets of Manhattan on Saturday, October 9, 2004, to witness the placement of the 10-foot angel Moroni upon the spire of the temple.7

End Notes
1. Carrie A. Moore, "LDS set temple in Big Apple: Church will use upper floors of existing building," Deseret News 8 Aug. 2002, 2 Nov. 2002 <http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405022944,00.html>.
2. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints News Release, "Temple to Be Built in Manhattan," 7 Aug. 2002.
3. Michelle García, "Manhattan's Mormon Temple: Sacred Space in a Bustling City," Washington Post, 5 Jun. 2004, B09.
4. Carrie A. Moore, "N.Y. temple to get spire," Deseret News, 10 Jun. 2004, A01.
5.Shaun D. Stahle, "Youth shine in city of Broadway performers," Church News 19 Jun. 2004, 8.
6. Carrie A. Moore, "Manhattan Temple dedicated," Deseret News 14 Jun. 2004, B01.
7. "Angel is a hit in the Big Apple," Deseret News 10 Oct. 2004, 14 Oct. 2004 <http://deseretnews.com/dn/view2/1,4382,595097359,00.html>.

In hindsight, yes it would have. At the time, I was worried about what would happen. (On a previous visit by one group, another roommate walked out, through the living room, and to the kitchen to get a beer, and then walked back through. No, he didn't open it; it was only 11 a.m. . . .)

hawk

That is not fortunate for Orthodoxy.