www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Do Most EC Converts Eventually Join The Orthodox Church ?

Dr. Alex that would be fine. Of course this means not only giving up the filioque, but it especially means repudiating the teaching that the Bishop of Rome has a primacy of universal power and jurisdiction that is immediate and unhindered. It would mean that the Pope resumes his place among the patriarchs as the first among equals with a primacy of honor and a certain moral authority to assist in maintaining the unity of the Church, as a service of love. Rome's prestige and moral authority depends upon her teaching the Orthodox faith and defending the Orthodox faith. If Rome returns to Orthodoxy then she can once again by an instrument of unity and concord.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Sounds very good to me!

Have a great day.

Alex

Does not sound Catholic to me. Rather, using the given mode of expression and paraphrasing mutatis mutandis: If the Orthodox churches return to the Catholic fold then they can once again enjoy the unity and concord for which the Lord Himself prayed.

Hi, I hope this thread is the right place for my observation. If it's a distraction,then moderators,please feel free to move it to the ORthodox in Communion with Rome thread.

First,let me be clear that I'm EC because I called to it and will remain an EC for as long as that calling remains. Yet, I recently realized that Eastern Catholicism is not the same as Orthodoxy,and not because of the Pope,but because the orientation;it's very foundation appears to me be profoundly Catholic. At best Eastern Catholicism is a Catholic adaptation of Orthodoxy. I wonder if it's this realization that causes converts to move on to Orthodoxy.

I've noticed that since the core of Orthodoxy is monasticism-which has as its direct goal salvation- that this purpose obviously permeates Orthodoxy. All people are called to live the monastic live whatever their station.Marriage is about helping one another achieve theosis,it's a form of martyrdom.Procreation is important, but it appears to me to be clearly,secondary to salvation.

Catholicism claims two callings;family or monastic and they're separate.It seems to me that it's about salvation through family life and marriage and the emphasis on family permeates Catholicism.Families are,of course,necessary and important,and it's logical that a extraordinarily passionate interest in pro-life issues would result from this focus on family.Monastics and their clear reminder of salvation as the number one Christian priority appear to be of slight importance to the salvation through family path.

The Orthodox I've met and spoken to, priests included,(and of course I know they don't represent all Orthodox)are very clear that salvation is a Christian's number one priority. Even though they are married and have families that they deeply love and care for as much as any Catholic does,there's little doubt that if Christ called them away from their families that they would follow him.

Frederica Matthewes-Green, a dedicated Orthodox pro-life family woman, wrote that she wanted God more than anything she wanted for her husband and children.I can't imagine any Catholic I know leaving their families for Christ or saying that they preferred God to their loved ones.I can't even imagine a Catholic homily-Western or Eastern- suggesting either example because family and salvation are so tied together in Catholicism as to be indivisible.

It seems to me that the relevance and importance of monastic values or purpose are behind this profound difference in orientation, and if a EC convert realizes that he wants more of the Orthodox monastic clarity of purpose then he either converts to Orthodoxy or remains at his EC parish for DL but receives his spiritual food by immersing himself in Orthodox spiritual literature or taking on an Orthodox priest as his spiritual director.

A foundation based on monastic spirituality is not stronger or weaker than a foundation based on salvation through family life,they're equally valid paths,but they are different,and it may take awhile,if ever, for an Eastern Catholic to be aware of this subtle but important difference.

These are just my own observations,and I admit that I may be way out of the ballpark on this one.

Speaking from five years experience on the Eastern Christianity section of Catholic Answerrs Forum I can attest that there is some truth in your thoughts.

In that period I can think of about 20 Eastern Catholics who moved into Orthodoxy. There may have been more, from among the lurkers who never wrote but just read the Forum and made their own decisions.

This happened without any intentional proselytizing from the Orthodox members of CAF. It was a serendipity thing. But, understandably, once the people who run Catholic Answers were aware of the trend, they dumped all the Orthodox contributors and banned us from membership, just over a year ago. Some of us still keep in touch by e-mail.

My own controversial belief on the topic, is that fairly recent documents from the Vatican, condition converts to expect a church that is fully Orthodox, yet in Communion with Rome. I believe the call for complete and total de-Latinization subtly and subconsciously leads many of our converts away from Rome and to the Orthodox Churches.

Thank you for your contribution Father Ambrose, and for confirming much of what I already suspected.

Doesn't sound too out of the ballpark to me...

The problem, and perhaps this is what Joe realized, is that the theology and ecclesiology cannot be truly Orthodox, no matter how faithful one is to the liturgics.

This need not be so. The theology and ecclesiology must be orthodox. If so, then it is true. What is needed (and it seems is lacking) is to articulate from an Eastern perspective and with Eastern expression that orthodox, Catholic theology.

I agree, and that is why one is Orthodox through communion with Orthodoxy. It is not the word that is important, but the underlying precepts. It is also not about being Eastern.

Well, Indigo, here is one Roman Catholic that hopes and prays that if he had to choose between his Creator and his family, he'd choose the former. I have tried to take to heart the saying that my patron saint holds in his icon next to my bed and which directed the course of his decisions in life: "Longing for God extinguishes longing for parents."

Alexis

That's what I'd say too. But to me, of course, to be (fully) orthodox means to be Catholic.



Well put. Tell that to this fellow; from another thread, link.


I do think that in general an adequate Eastern Catholic articulation of the Catholic faith, which I profess to be orthodox, is lacking.

I am not sure but the Catechism of the Eastern Catholic Church being prepared under the oversight of Bishop Stasiuk must be close to completion? It will be interesting to see how it treats of things such as indulgences, the Immaculate Conception... etc.

Why, Fr. Deacon, do you think that is??? Could it be that some of the "latin inventions" don't mesh with Eastern thinking and understanding??? Hence, the "gymnastics" to try and "prove" they are true deposits of the faith fall flat. I honestly would like to see some dialogue on this, and the moderators can feel free to break this off into a seperate thread if necessary.

and I think your position is quite reasonable.




I don't get that.



I assume that will only sow confusion then.