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Rome practiced reciprocity in the matter - a Roman Catholic priest and an Eastern Catholic priest were subject to the same rules in the matter of bi-ritual faculties. On the other hand, a Moscow Patriarchate Confidentes priest needed nothing in particular to serve the Nikonian ritual, while a Nikonian priest needed the personal blessing of the Patriarch to serve the Old Rite (and notice that I said the personal blessing of the Patriarch - Catholic priests with an analogous desire did not need the personal blessing of the Pope for the purpose).
Fr. Serge
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Dear Father David,
I have attended the Old Rite Divine Liturgy as often as possible, and can testify from experience that it is not notably longer than a Nikonian Liturgy - perhaps because the simplicity of Znammeny chant does not take as long as much of the polyphony that one finds. In any event, I have not noticed the phenomenon of people drifting in and out to anything resembling the phenomenon observable in . . . well . . . "other" Churches.
It is quite true that an Old Rite parish insists on a high standard of practice. This actually seems to attract people.
When I have served the Old Rite myself, I immediately notice that what does indeed take more time are the prayers before and after the Divine Liturgy - but these are for the clergy. I've been working for quite a while on a translation.
fraternally in Christ,
Serge Mr. Simmons once said -- on Ustav, I believe -- that an Old Rite Divine Liturgy could be finished in 1.5 hours, but that the All-Night Vigil in parishes typically last 4-6 hours.
Last edited by asianpilgrim; 12/22/08 11:00 AM.
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The same is true at Jordanville on a great feast day. On Athos, they sometimes really do serve all night - and the same is true on a great feast day in Athens. I've been in the Mitropoli in Athens for Saint Philothea, and the cathedral is filled, literally, all night, with chartered buses arriving, choirs taking turns - quite beautiful. Doxa Si, O Theos, Alleluia!
Fr. Serge
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The same is true at Jordanville on a great feast day. On Athos, they sometimes really do serve all night - and the same is true on a great feast day in Athens. I've been in the Mitropoli in Athens for Saint Philothea, and the cathedral is filled, literally, all night, with chartered buses arriving, choirs taking turns - quite beautiful. Doxa Si, O Theos, Alleluia!
Fr. Serge From what I remember reading on Ustav, they have a 4-hour All Night Vigil every Saturday night in Jordanville. And the daily Vespers-Matins aggregate is 2.5 hours in the evening, as per the Jordanville website. But then, Jordanville is a monastery, not a parish. I also recall a discussion on Ustav to the effect that in Athos, there are real all-night vigils before every Sunday, and before many great feasts, totaling some 70-80 real all night vigils per year. Ah, I really need to track the URL's of the messages there!
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Rome practiced reciprocity in the matter - a Roman Catholic priest and an Eastern Catholic priest were subject to the same rules in the matter of bi-ritual faculties. On the other hand, a Moscow Patriarchate Confidentes priest needed nothing in particular to serve the Nikonian ritual, while a Nikonian priest needed the personal blessing of the Patriarch to serve the Old Rite (and notice that I said the personal blessing of the Patriarch - Catholic priests with an analogous desire did not need the personal blessing of the Pope for the purpose). Dear Father, It seems of no great import that a Roman priest used to need authority from the Vatican while a Russian priest needs authority from his Patriarch ( I must admit I am surprised that permision from his ruling bishop is not sufficient!?) But in both cases it is the higher echelons which make the decision.
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Rome practiced reciprocity in the matter - a Roman Catholic priest and an Eastern Catholic priest were subject to the same rules in the matter of bi-ritual faculties. Yes, this is true. Rome had the view that a priest's psyche and religious identity could be disturbed / undermined by acting as a bi-ritual priest. With the advance in out psychological knowledge since those days I imagine this is no longer seen as a great risk.
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We are way off-topic and since the posts as of late have nothing to do with the original topic, this thread is hereby closed.
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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