www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology When we see other people sin, what are we supposed to do?

Hello all,

When we see other people sin, what are we supposed to do?
Sometimes when I see other people sin, then I become fearful about their salvation and try to pray for them, however, this make it spiritually harmful to me since every time I see the person, then I attach the sin with the person and it becomes hard to relate to the person. So is it ok when I see people sin, that I try not to notice it and try to pretend like it never happened and just trust in God that he will take care of the person instead of me worrying about the person. I have found some saints writing about this topic:

Since the enemy watches you constantly, waiting for an opportunity to sow evil in you, be doubly watchful over yourself, lest you fall in the nets spread for you. As soon as he shows you some fault in your neighbor, hasten to repel this thought, lest it take root in you and grow. Cast it out, so that no trace is left in you, and replace it by the thought of the good qualities you know your neighbor to possess, or of those people generally should have. If you still feel the impulse to pass judgment, add to this the truth that you are given no authority for this and that the moment you assume this authority you thereby make yourself worthy of judgment and condemnation, not before powerless men, but before God, the all-powerful Judge of all. Bishop Theophan the Recluse - Unseen Warfare

It's very egotistical to believe that you are able to correct other people. Elder Paiosios

Whle we haven't known Christ or haven't even come close to him. We dare look after the salvation of other people!! We should look after our own repentance. Elder Paiosios

Many sinful people were saved, just because they didn't criticize others and were aware of their own sinfulness. Elder Paiosios

We must always be alert and careul not to criticize other people. or be curious, and always concentrate on how to correct our own wretched selves.Elder Paiosios

Thanks
Khalid

Kick 'em!

No, seriously, I would say that you should pray for that person. Pray that s/he repent and become a great Saint.

The New Testament has quite a bit to say about admonishing others. The real requirement is that we do not do it in a self righteous or hypocritical manner.

That is a really good observation. The temptation to judgment. Father Deacon gave us a good homily about that last Sunday. Sin is so sticky, it just wants to stick to everyone involved, the people who do it, the people who see it done, even the people who know it is bad.

Isn't it supposed to be a virtue when you help to correct someone? So sometimes, I think there are opportunities to help people to choose to stop sinning. But yes, you have to take the plank out of your own eye first, and then while you're doing it you have to be able to keep seeing your neighbor with love, always with love, even when they are or have been doing something you think is terrible -- and that is really hard for most people...so I think that's why counsel is given for people to refrain from criticism, and to focus on knowing and repenting one's own faults.

This is a good topic, Khalid...

I like the quotes from Elder Paisios.

I think that we should be very careful about commenting on other's sins, because it can throw us into committing sins of our own without realizing it...

I know that too many good people come across extremely judgemental when offering such correction, even when they may not be...and I have seen that this can hinder another from absorbing anything that has been said--to the detriment, rather than the betterment of the recipient's soul.

I think that the only times that we can comment, without worry or hesitation, is IF we are asked what someone thinks about something they are doing, and if it is our own children...however, even in these cases, we should be very careful and thoughtful in thinking out our measured words and approach the topic simply, humbly.

Perhaps it is also best to comment on what the Church says is a sin rather that saying "I" think it is a sin.

Anyway, we all sin, so I am assuming that those sins which we might notice in others are 'in your face/flaunting' sins such as those which are of a sexual nature. I doubt that ethical sins such as lying, stealing and murdering are sins which the person who is engaging in would flaunt, and therefore, that we would be aware of.

In Christ,
Alice

Khalid:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

This topic seems to be rather general. Can you give some specific examples? Many times people with ultra scrupulous consciences see sin everywhere and endanger themselves and others by their attitude toward them. I have lived and worked with some people who think that their brand of Christianity is the only one and that everyone else is a lost sinner. They spend their time trying to convert others and in so doing make the workplace--and often family life--unbearable because of the constant tension they create.

Other times, people who are themselves tempted toward a specific sin go out of their way to see it in practice in others. It reinforces their curiosity and fixation about the sin, letting it occupy their minds in such a way that they teeter on the edge of committing it themselves. The danger is in becoming sinfully proud in not having the sin oneself and developing an attitude of "spiritual superiority that is nothing more than sinful pride, the root of all sin.

It is not our place to be monitoring others. The Scripture that admonishes "physician, heal theyself" applies to us. We need to look at our own faults and apply the prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian always:

" . . . grant that I may perceive my own transgressions and judge not my brother . . ."

The Desert Fathers advise us to pray for everyone, especially when we see a brother fall, remembering that "there but for the grace of God, go I." That we are spared the temptation and the fall is the Grace of God, the Hand of Providence.

My advice? Pray for eveyone, as the Desert Fathers advise. Thank God for the grace to recognize sin and to avoid it. Intercede for those who fall. Pray for the grace of conversion for those who are in patterns of sin. But don't fixate on someone's sin and see him differently because he sins. The just man falls seven times a day; he gets up and focuses back on Christ as he repents and tries again. We all fall short of the grace of God. We often run "three-legged" together into the Kingdom. We bear one another's faults. Why? Because Christ did; He came for each and every person--even for those who don't know Him. It's our job to put on Christ and that means putting on His attitude toward everyone else.

It seems to me that the danger for you here is becoming (1)judgemental and (2) sinfully proud when you don't have the sin you see in others. Remember, too, that one of the gravest sins is that of an unforgiving heart--that is, you constantly see the sin from the past, but you do not know of the repentance and forgiveness that may have intervened between the time you observed the sin and the future time you recall it.

In Christ Who came here to forgive me and told me to forgive others unconditionally,

BOB

Dear Khalid,

Just to add one more thing to BOB's most excellent post...

I just remembered that that you are young and that means a whole other ballgame in today's world...

I am assuming that you are seeing various 'lifestyles' which probably include some sort of sexual behaviours, drugs, and alchohol.

As Bob said, try not to be overscrupulous. Ofcourse, if one is blatantly (which so many of our youth today are) and unashamedly a fornicator, an alchohol abuser or a homosexual, you will probably remember that label because they are not hiding it, but just let it go at that...without judgement about the sin. Pray for them, and pray for all youths of your generation...and have faith that they will mature one day and many will change their behaviours. Even some of the saints engaged in sinful youthful folly before they grew up in maturity and faith.

I would suggest that you not judge, but realize in a humble manner, that you can be a beacon of the light of Christ for your acquaintances in not engaging in their lifestyle, while at the same time, also not judging them...unless ofcourse a good friend/friends are engaging in behaviours which are destructive...and ofcourse, even then, tread carefully and show concern rather than judgement. They may or may not listen to you. However, you never know what good or positive influence you may have on that person one day.

In Christ,
Alice

Sometimes I get worried about people salvation like if close people to me who don't go to Church. Also, I worry if close people of me don't forgive; I'm struggling with forgiveness too and I learned it the hard way and I know how much it hurts when not to forgive. Also, Jesus said that if you don't forgive others then God wont forgive you, so I get worried about the close people to me if they don't forgive. I do have to work on humility and not being judgmental.
Thank you all for your replies.

Keep me in your prayers

Dear Khalid,

Pray for others...that is the greatest gift we can offer, and God, if He wills, will see to the rest...it may not be this year, or even next year, or even in the next decades of your life, but if you faithfully pray with much love for someone, you just may see their salvation come before they die. I have. Trust in God and leave it to Him, and in the meantime concentrate on your spiritual life too!

In Christ,
Alice

KHALID:

Christ told us that our greatest enemies when we choose to follow Him will be those of our own families. And I will attest to that from personal experience. I have had constant "you don't have to do that" from people around me from the time I was barely into double digits in age.

Be focused on what Christ calls you to do and to be. His Holy Spirit is working with you. How and if He is working with anyone else is something you will never know. You are responsible with the Baptismal commitment you were given. You are responsible for following the Church's teaching--the Gospel and Holy Tradition--as far and as much as you are able. When you meet Christ face-to-face, He won't ask you about anyone else but you. The Desert Fathers tell us that our goal is to focus so clearly on Christ that we think that He and I alone exist. It is in our relationship with Him that is our focus.

How does that relate to others? We see Christ in the face of each and every person who comes across our path. We forgive and we pray fervently for all those with whom we live. We don't want them to be like us--their faith gift and their capacity to use grace may not be what ours is. Each of us is like the different size red clay pots you see in a greenhouse nursery. They come in all sizes and all capacities. Christ has called you to strive to fill yourself with Him in the fullest capacity you are able to do. You will be a light to others. Live your life so that everyone wants to know what makes you "tick." Then confess that you're in love with Christ and He draws you to strive to the fullest living-out of His commands you can. If someone says he doesn't understand because "you don't have to do all that," tell him you're in love and lovers don't count the cost--they just go all out.

In Christ,

BOB

ChaldeanCatholic,

Shlama!

Ask for God's mercy upon them, upon you, and upon all of us, because we all sin. Always see yourself as a worst sinner than they are.

If their sin is so serious that it is directly harming another person's life and salvation, then speak out. For example, if a mother or father is abusing their child, then do what you can to bring peace to the family. When you speak out, always do so in a loving way.

God bless,

Rony

Oh I really like the way you put that! That is very inspiring! I'm praying with the Holy Mother, with the icon of Softening of Stone Hearts. That really speaks to my prayer life right now.

And pray that we too ourselves come to repentance.
The older I get the more I know my failures.
Stephanos I