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#30819 10/20/04 12:42 PM
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Dear Lawrence,

Even Ivan IV has his canonization movement . . . wink

As for Henry VIII, he was, despite his divorces and separation from Rome as a result, devout to the end of his life.

He prayed the psalms and the rosary - his rosary is on display at one of the museums in London. Every evening at 5:45 pm in a hospital that he founded in London, the nuns gather to pray the rosary for his soul - the only payment in return for building the hospital that Henry VIII ever asked for.

He also contributed lavishly to the canonization cause of his predecessor, Blessed King Henry VI, whose cause has just now, in the pontificate of Pope John XXIII, been resumed (members of the Society of Henry VI, such as myself, have permission to refer to the king publicly as "Blessed.")

Some commentators have said that Rome just might have granted him his annulment from Catherine of Aragon for pressing state reasons.

It was just that the King of Spain had, at that time, invaded Rome and was keeping the pope as his prisoner.

The pope had no freedom to rule against the Spanish monarchy in any event.

Alex

#30820 10/20/04 12:55 PM
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Bless, Father Matthew!

The Ukrainian Catholic theologian, Fr. Dr. Petro Bilaniuk, (+ memory eternal!) attended the funeral of the Empress Zita and read from scripture in Ukrainian.

(He was a life-long member of the Monarchist League of Canada)

The Habsburgs enjoyed an excellent reputation among western Ukrainians where there was a strong monarchist movement at the first world war.

Met. Andrew supported the Habsburgs and was on excellent relations with them, including "Basil Vyshyvany" Bernard Loehtringen who was once touted as a possible King of and independent western Ukraine (he spoke Ukrainian fluently and habitually wore an embroidered shirt etc.).

The Habsburgs were one of the more civilized CAtholic royal/imperial families of Europe and it is to be hoped that Empress Zita will join her husband in being paid the honours of the altar.

Alex

#30821 10/20/04 03:51 PM
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Alex,

In the same article by Fr. Ambrozio Eszer, there is commentary on the relationship between Blessed Karl and Metropolitan Andrew:

"III.1 If we take into consideration the relationships of the Servant of God with the Catholics of the Eastern Rite, in the first place it must be emphasized that he loved to attend the Byzantine liturgy very much because he was fascinated by the beauty of the ceremonies and the liturgical chants. With extraordinary zeal, he strove for the liberation of the Servant of God Andrew Sheptycky, Metropolitan of Lv�iv of the Ukrainians, who had been captured and imprisoned by the Russian authorities when the Russian army, in the autumn of 1914, had conquered a large part of Galicia. After the liberation of the Metropolitan, he came to be received by the emperor at the castle of Laxenburg near Vienna. A friendship between the two Servants of God, therefore, had its beginning, a friendship that was destined to last beyond the collapse of the empire inasmuch as the Metropolitan made a visit to the imperial couple in their Swiss exile."

Fr. Matthew

#30822 10/20/04 04:13 PM
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Bless Father Mathew!

Thank you for that quote!

What always impressed me about him was his great piety whereby he knelt in the dirt, although he was imperial royalty, to hear daily Mass, that he never missed, even though he was in the midst of terrible political turmoils.

I also understand that the dictator of Hungary rejected the Blessed Emperor as King of Hungary and chose alliance with Hitler instead.

The man lived to regret his decision and asked Bl. Karl's son for forgiveness for rejecting his father. . . on his deathbed.

Alex

#30823 10/20/04 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Bless Father Mathew!

.

I also understand that the dictator of Hungary rejected the Blessed Emperor as King of Hungary and chose alliance with Hitler instead.

The man lived to regret his decision and asked Bl. Karl's son for forgiveness for rejecting his father. . . on his deathbed.

Alex
Admiral Horthy?

#30824 10/20/04 06:05 PM
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Dear Brian,

Yep! You is right!

Alex

#30825 10/20/04 10:21 PM
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Sorry Alex, but I see few redeeming qualities in Henry VIII. His devotion to the end (he was found of saying I'am a schismatic but no heretic) never stood in the way of his vicious dissolution of the monasteries, which turned out to be one of the worst economic disasters in English history. His brutal suppression of the Pilgrimage of Grace, the hanging drawing and quarterings of those who refused to recognise him as head of the church, not to mention his own adulterous life style that made Katherine Howard look like a nun, and of course his destruction of Becket's shrine.

#30826 10/20/04 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by defreitas:
Dear Friends:

As I understand, the Feast Day for the Blessed Karl is October 21st.

The interesting thing about this is that the date does not commemorate his birth or death but his wedding.

The Hapsburg family requested that his Feast should be honoured on that day.

We may yet see the pious servant of God Zita of Bourbon-Parma & Hapsburg also glorified.


Sincerely
defreitas
Hmmm - that would be tomorrow. Any suggestions for possible devotions to use, since there aren't any printed devotions or prayers available?

#30827 10/21/04 08:52 AM
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Dear Lawrence,

My point is that we sometimes like to draw black and white lines in the sand with respect to historical figures.

The Catholic King of Spain at the time took the pope hostage and slaughtered many Romans in the streets, whose bodies rotted to high heaven etc.

That Henry VIII was a cruel monarch is true. That there are monarchs in the calendar of saints who did similar things to Henry VIII (including Charlemagne) is also true.

And no one wishes to canonize Henry VIII. His often cruel reactions had to do with perceived threats to his authority.

The shrine of St Thomas Beckett was long regarded with suspicion by England's monarchs even before Henry's time because the iconography at Canterbury showed scenes of what seemed to be treacherous activity i.e. the monks whipping Henry II as part of his penance etc.

There were many who regarded Beckett as a traitor in England as well and during the Reformation they attacked his icons on walls in churches not primarily due to their iconoclasm (that came later with the Puritans) but because they considered him a traitor and his cult as one that preached sedition.

Catholic kings before this were also engaged in similar such attacks on saints and potential saints.

Simon de Montfort, for example, was locally venerated as a saint by the English Franciscans for about fifty years (the rules for public veneration weren't as strict then).

The problem was that he was not only killed physically, but also spiritually, and died excommunicated.

This was used as a pretext to stop his cult in its tracks, even though the fact of someone's excommunication did not prevent them from having it lifted later (St Joan of Arc) and becoming a saint.

And the time of Henry VIII brought to a head centuries of English Catholic issues with Roman jurisdiction over the English Church.

Canterbury's Archbishops, such as Stephen Langton, had long protested the Roman practice of appointing foreign bishops over their heads to English bishoprics.

For this reason, although Langton was locally honoured as a saint in England, there was no question he would ever be canonized by Rome.

Alex

#30828 10/21/04 08:55 AM
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Dear Karl, I mean, Charles,

There is the Service to any Saint at the back of the General Menaion.

There is also an Akathist at "akafist.narod.ru" that is designed to honour any saint not yet having an akathist.

That would have to be translated though.

Or one could simply honour him with the general, one-size-fits-all invocation:

Pray unto God for us, Blessed Karl, well-pleasing to God, for we sincerely approach you as our quick helper and intercessor!

Alex

#30829 10/21/04 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

The Catholic King of Spain at the time took the pope hostage and slaughtered many Romans in the streets, whose bodies rotted to high heaven etc.
And no one wishes to canonize Henry VIII. His often cruel reactions had to do with perceived threats to his authority.

Catholic kings before this were also engaged in similar such attacks on saints and potential saints.
Alex
Well, it makes one take to heart the Psalm "put not your trust in Princes" even Catholic Princes! biggrin

#30830 10/21/04 11:51 AM
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"Hmmm - that would be tomorrow. Any suggestions for possible devotions to use, since there aren't any printed devotions or prayers available?"

Almighty God, Lord of Lords and King of Kings, in Your infinite fatherly love you are keeping watch over the fate of men and nations. You called Your servant, Emperor and King Charles of the House of Austria, to serve as a father to his peoples in difficult times and to promote peace with all his strength. By sacrificing his life, he sealed his willingness to fulfill Your holy will.

Grant us the grace, with his intercession, to follow his example and serve the true cause of peace, which we find in the faithful fulfillment of Your holy will. We ask this through him, Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever. Amen.



Prayer for special grace through the intercession of the Servant of God Emperor and King Charles of the House of Austria



Holy Trinity, I adore you from the bottom of my heart and thank You for the gifts you have granted to the Servant of God Charles of the House of Austria. As a result of his deep Faith, he gave his entire life in selfless and willing service to Your divine Glory and the well-being of those entrusted to him.

Strengthen us through his helping intercession when discouragement, loneliness, lack of readiness to forgive others, and sickness oppress us, and grant us through his intercession a good death.

Through the intercession of the Servant of God Charles of the House of Austria. In Your mercy also hear my personal request�

Praise and thanks be to You, eternal and almighty God, now and forever. Amen.


A Novena booklet in PDF format:
http://www.beatificationemperorcharles.info/Doc/Kaiser%20Karl%20Brosch._engl.pdf


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
#30831 10/21/04 01:29 PM
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Dear Father Deacon Lance,

I think my response was more Eastern . . . smile

Perhaps Bl. Karl should be honoured by EC churches for his protection of them and for assisting Met. Andrew?

Perhaps Iconophile could do an icon of him?

I would work on an akathist . . .

Alex

#30832 10/23/04 05:00 AM
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Eternal Memory!
The Imperial Austrian Anthem

In honour of the recent beatification of the Blessed Emperor Charles, we offer here the Ukrainian text of the Imperial Austrian Anthem. The air is that composed by Haydn for Gott erhalte unsern Kaiser. The Ukrainian text is taken from the prayer-book Anhel Khoronytel�, published by the Catholic Book and Church Supply Company, New York, 1915:

Bozhe, budy pokrovytel�
Tsisariu, Jeho krajam!
Kripkyi viroju pradytel�
Mudro naj provodyt� nam!
Pradidnu Jeho koronu
Boronim vid voroha!
Tisno iz Hapsburgiv tronom
Splelas� Avstryi sud�ba!

Chestno, virno, pravo shchyro
Dovzhnist�, pravdu , berezhim,
A v potrebi z kripkov virov,
Bodrym dukhom v biy idim!
Pamiatni na vojyniv slavu,
Shcho krasyt� jikh khoruhov,
Za Tsisaria, za derzhavu,
Zhertvujmo majno i krov!

Shcho naroda sklaly ruky,
Vojniv mech naj sterezhe,
Svitlo pravdy i nauky
Temnotu naj rozzhene!
Shchedro naj na kraj splivaje
Shchastja razom z slavoju,
Myrom sol�ntse naj syjaje
Na shchaslyvu Avstryju!

Razom kripko sia derzhim;
Z�hodov syl�nyj bude ljud;
Razom syly spoluchim
Dvyhnym i najtjavshyj trud.
Z�hidni, jedni v spil�nij spravi,
Tsil� naj bude vsim odna:
Shchast� Tsisarju, shchast� derzhavi!
V vik postojit� Avstrija!

[This final verse is inappropriate for use, since it refers by name to Emperor Francis Joseph and Empress Elisabeth, who are both long deceased and to whom, therefore, we may not wish long life in this world. The verse is given here as a matter of historical interest:

Pry Tsisarju tron zasila,
Sertsem kroviju ridna
Tsisareva nasha mila
V nevjalu krasu strijna!
Schcho najbil�shym shchast�jem svitu,
Daj Jim Bozhe z nebesy!
Frants Iosyfa, Jel�savetu,
Ves� Habsburgskij Dom spasi! ]

Enjoy.
Incognitus

#30833 10/23/04 07:50 AM
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Bless, Father Incognitus,

I salute you and affirm my admiration for you, once more! smile

Alex

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