www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Korean Bishops denounce Charismatic Excesses

As for those who misinterpret, twist, and rearrange the words of the Fathers (especially St. Symeon the New Theologian) and thereby try to support their charismatic goals from within the Orthodox Church, let them think about this: At no time in the history of Orthodoxy—in a history of almost two thousand years—did the Faithful or the Fathers ever throw their hands frantically in the air, babbling, interrupting the chanting, and declaring the Church to have anything but the pleroma, or fullness, of the Holy Spirit. Never! Never!

Our Fathers raised the dead. They cured the ill. They ascended into the Heavenly Realm and conversed with angels. They went to speak to those who spoke another tongue and found that, without having learned that tongue, they could preach to the people. (This evangelical gift, which allowed the Apostles to spread the message of Christianity, was present in the Early Church. St. Paul even warns those who have it not to cause confusion, but, in order to be consistent with the purpose of the gift—that of witnessing to the Faith—, to use the gift only if interpretation is available.) Our Fathers were so united with the power of things spiritual, that often their flesh was infused with the Spirit, their bodies failing to corrupt after death. YET, never once did the Fathers babble senselessly in tongues, let alone in the midst of the liturgy. Never did they conduct themselves in the manner of the modern charismatics. We can only conclude, then, that this movement is a demonic ruse, an attempt to fulfill our Orthodox longing for the fullness of Church Tradition with the emotional frenzy of Pentecostal sectarian pietism.

There is nothing Orthodox about the charismatic movement. It is incompatible with Orthodoxy, in that it justifies itself only by perverting the message of the Fathers, suggesting that the Church of Christ needs renewal, and indulging in the theological imagery of, Pentecostal cultism. With such things, one cannot be too bold in his language of condemnation and reprobation.

As for those caught in the web of the charismatic movement, under no circumstances are we justified if we condemn them. Those who imagine themselves saved by all of this are victims of a demonic arrogance which blinds them to true evangelical humility, which often serves certain personality deficits, and which, more often than not, convinces them inwardly of their own salvation—indeed, a dangerous thing. We must reach out to these people with charitable words, constantly assuring them that the Orthodox Church has a fullness which is not yet realized in America. Within that fullness, we must tell them, rests a true spiritual treasure, not a dull stone glimmering with the polish of deceit and emotionalism. And then, to be sure, we must set about restoring the fullness of the Church's traditions, admitting readily that WE, not the Church, have lacked fullness!

From Orthodox Tradition, Vol. I, Nos. 4&5, pp. 29-32.

Hieromonk Seraphim Rose wrote extensively on the Charismatic movement in the book "Orthodoxy And The Religion Of The Future". A wise investment for those who wish to learn the truth about the charismatic movement.

Alexandr

Lance,

I do not think your experience is uncommon. I think part of the issue is that charisms are regarded by some as exclusively synonymous with "charismatic phenomena" like the ones you mentioned.

It also appears to be synonymous with guitars and casio keyboards, aiding in "entering into" the spirit of worship and praise, which gives it a somewhat contrived feel.

I think the Catholic Charismatic Movement will never reach maturity until it can discern the movement of the Holy Spirit in Gregorian Chant.

And I support SOME of the goals of the movement (personal conversion and interior renewal, activation of the charisms of the laity given in Baptism and Chrismation, evangelization, greater docility to the working of the Holy Spirit, spiritual warfare, etc etc). I just see them as fulfilled in a more manifest way through Eastern Christian spirituality and praxis, especially as evidenced by the lives of the saints.

God bless,

Fr. Deacon Daniel

I think the idea that charisms are manifestation of personal holiness is tempting for some, and it represents one of the Protestant distortions one encounters from time to time in the movement (though not always and everywhere). A useful lesson comes from the Old Testament, where God was able to cause a donkey to prophesy!

In our age of apostasy preceding the manifestation of antichrist, the devil has been loosed for a time (Apoc. 20:7) to work the false miracles which he could not work during the "thousand years" of Grace in the Church of Christ (Apoc. 20:3), and to gather in his hellish harvest of those souls who "received not the love of the truth" (2 Thess. 2:10). We can tell that the time of antichrist is truly near by the very fact that this satanic harvest is now being reaped not merely among the pagan peoples, who have not heard of Christ, but even more among "Christians" who have lost the savor of Christianity. It is of the very nature of antichrist to present the kingdom of the devil as if it were of Christ. The present-day "charismatic" movement and "Christian meditation," and the "new religious consciousness" of which they are part, are forerunners of the religion of the future, the religion of the last humanity, the religion of antichrist, and their chief "spiritual" function is to make available to Christians the demonic initiation hitherto restricted to the pagan world. Let it be that these "religious experiments" are still often of a tentative and groping nature, that there is in them at least as much psychic self-deception as there is a genuinely demonic initiation rite; doubtless not everyone who has successfully "meditated" or thinks he has received the "Baptism of the Spirit" has actually received initiation into the kingdom of satan. But this is the aim of these "experiments," and doubtless the techniques of initiation will become ever more efficient as mankind becomes prepared for them by the attitudes or passivity and openness to new "religious experiences" which are inculcated by these movements.

Hieromonk Seraphim Rose

Hieromonk Seraphim Rose is no doubt a very forceful writer. I would like to read this book if only to get at more his rationale for such a condemnation. Is it available on-line?

FrDD

Here is the chapter on the religion of the future

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/sign/

It is full of wisdom.

Pope Paul VI said that the breath of Satan had entered the Catholic Church. Nowhere is this more evident than in the manifestation of the charismatic movement.

Alexandr

From my own involvement in the charismatic movement (which I ended only in January 2005), I can enumerate the following serious errors.

1) "Baptism in the Spirit" -- I performed this myself several times on some new members, and I am so sorry that I did.

As some of my elders in the charismatic movement explained to me, "Baptism in the Spirit" is the true beginning of the Christian life which wakes up the "sleeping Holy Spirit" that was already imparted to us in Baptism and Confirmation.

I had doubts about this from the very beginning of my involvement, but since the Philippine bishops were so unreserved and enthusiastic in their support for the charismatic movement, I stifled my doubts until my growing research forced me to reject the practice. I had my "moment of realization" while I was actually performing an "exorcism" before "baptizing" someone in the Spirit -- and I found myself asking: "by what authority am I doing this?" After that night, I never "baptized" anyone in the Spirit ever again. Shortly thereafter, I left the charismatic movement entirely.

2) "Praying in Tongues" -- the way this is interpreted by Philippine charismatic groups (especially by Couples for Christ, which is fast spreading in the USA and Europe), is that we should move our tongues fast in gibberish as a form of "wordless prayer" and "true prayer in the Spirit". According to the CFC elders who taught us about this prayer, we should "practice" and "develop" prayer in tongues. An obvious form of spiritual delusion, as I now realize.

3) An ambiguous attitude towards the sacraments and the liturgy.

4) The practice of the "Lord's Supper" on Saturday evening, in commemoration of the Sabbath.

5) "Slaying in the Spirit" also known as "Resting in the Spirit" -- taught by some (not all) charismatics. This consists of falling down after having been blessed, or baptized in the Spirit, or after being prayed over, etc. According to some charismatic authors (Fr. Robert de Grandis SSJ, for instance), if one does not experience being Slain in the Spirit, then one has not truly been possessed by God. A not-too-veiled rejection of the Sacraments in favor of a quasi-Pentecostalist and Evangelical theology of conversion.

There are many other errors.

Unfortunately, any attempt to counteract the charismatic movement must deal with the adulation and praise heaped upon it by Pope John Paul II. Pope John Paul II was a great and holy man, but his attitude towards the "New Movements" (as well as to Marian apparitions) was too uncritical. I find it interesting that it is only now that bishops' conferences and the Holy See itself are taking steps against movements that had been practically untouchable under Pope John Paul II.

Fr. Deacon Daniel,


I do not want to give the impression that there is no value at all in my past experience. I did develop a relationship with Christ in those early years.


I think though that the Catholic Charismatic movement did not ground itself in Holy Tradition, and did not have discipline. It was too prone to slide into fundamentalism.

I am criticizing the sectarian and extreme fundamentalist tendencies that the charismatic movement, whether Catholic or Protestant, sometimes leads to.

I do respect and value the commitment to Christ, the witness and practice of my many evangelical friends, I do not intend to malign them. I have a friend who is an Assembly of God minister, and he is a great guy, and balanced, intelligent Christian.

I am speaking here of extremes. It seems that often charismatic movements tend to extremes, as we see in the prosperity gospel. There are so many heretics in today's charismatic scene.

I agree with Slavipodvizhnik that St. Seraphim's life provides a great example of the Spirit-filled life.


Blessings,


Lance


A Byzantine Christian in a Postmodern World [byzantinechristian.blogspot.com]

As a former charismatic Protestant this sounds to me like "breaking generational curses"


http://www.sw-mins.org/gen_curses.html

Alexandr:

Christ is born!! Glorify Him!!

Am I correct in assuming that Father Seraphim means the Centering Prayer movement when he speaks of "Christian meditation"? This is the Hindu borrowing of people like Thomas Keating, Anthony DeMello, and others who claim that they can summon Christ at their own whim during their meditation exercises.

In Christ,

BOB

Alexander/Slavipodvizhni,

I think that this is a good quote that you make:
Prelest is a slavic term that in the church theology means enchantment, like a "dreamboat". It's the word in Russian that they use for the small creature's "Precious" when he refers to his ring in "The Lord of the Ring" by Tolkien.

I also agree with those skeptical of the Charismatic movement. It seems to me that much of what they are experiencing is psychological, and in fact St. Seraphim of Sarov represents the Orthodox Christian attitude the has become mainstream in the Church for centuries on the question. Extreme or "fringe" gifts of the spirit like visions seem rare, especially relegated to holy individuals, although not exclusively.

The problem I have is that in the first century AD, it did seem like a common mentality among the churches that they were close to God and commonly experiencing gifts, and I don't just mean Jesus and his directly chosen apostles.

Further, the New Testament does give the impression that the Christians are in fact close to the divine or "near to God", as Paul described them as vessels filled with God's spirit. Also, St. Seraphim talks critically about people with Prelest predicting the future, but it seems like this was a frequent occurrance in the early churches, as Paul writes in 1 Cor. 14:

Peter explained about the Pentecost event in Acts 2:
This makes me think that the charismatics of today could be like the Christians in the first century. But the problem with that is that I tend to think that the charismatics are mostly experiencing psychological phenomena, and in a few cases even making things up like Benny Hinn does. So it creates uncertainty in my mind about what was really happening with the Christian community in the first century. I understand that they had Orthodox theology and rituals, but it makes me think that maybe they had a charismatic mentality too, which makes some of the miracle claims less reliable for me. I read Biblical commentaries, but what do you think the best thing is to do about this problem?

I think that this is another excellent quote. It makes a good point that the Church did not teach that the church itself lacked the full faith, which seems to be a common teaching among modern charismatics. I think that the article cited refers to Fr. Eusebius' ideas about the mainstream church.

Still, I think that there is a grain of truth in that there were church "battles" where one group accused the group with the upper hand in the church's institutions of being in heresy. With the modern charismatics though, at least in the Orthodox church, the charismatics are basically a fringe group, rather than just a significant minority.

More importantly though, I am skeptical that he is right that in the first century many Christians weren't babbling. It seems to be the kind of thing that Paul talked about in his letters about the "angelic tongue" and about his instructions for the Corinthians to use interpreters when people in their church used glossolalia.

I also have heard stories of nonmainstream groups raising the dead, but I think that some of those events are hoaxes. However, I also think that some of them are probably real events. It might happen in other religions too.

Finally, did it actually happen that holy Christians went to people who didn't know the same language that they did at all and that they both understood each statement that the holy people made? It seems like this could be either a legend. Maybe some people in the audience had some familiarity with Greek for example? Maybe they caught a few words and got the "jist" of what was being said, based on the context?

That's how I feel about some things that are described in the New Testament. It leaves me with uncertainty over whether they actually happened or were exaggerations made by people with a charismatic mentality. I am not sure what to do about this because I would rather avoid having uncertainty about the gospel's main miracles.

rakovsky:

Christ is in our midst!!

This thread is no longer "news." It is 6 1/2 years old.

There have been other threads on this board about the phenomenon of "speaking in tongues" mentioned in the New Testament. Basically the Orthodox position seems to be that there was no "babbling" done. Rather, one person spoke in his own tongue and the hearer heard the message in his, though the two were different and neither person had the facility of both languages.

The Holy Spirit intervened in the communication model between the two persons. That way, in Acts one person spoke the Good News and a large group of many nationalities "heard" and understood the communication at the same time in many languages.

I will try to link St. Seraphim Rose's piece on the Charismatic Movement for you.

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/charismatic_revival_s_rose_e.htm

Bob

Christ is in our midst!!

I have been told that Fr. Eusebius was a Greek Orthodox priest whose work has been condemned by the GOA for his support of the charismatic movement. This movement's claims fly in the face of Orthodox teaching.

As for your second question, the answer is "yes."

Bob