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Kollyvas,

Can we just post the link without having to also reproduce the whole page in its entirity or just the text to the page. It saves some us a lot of double reading time.

Thanks!

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator

sorry...

No problem, it just keeps the eye strain down for those that regularly read the screen.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

This idea of "East" vs "West" competition for antiquity is rather silly.

The Holy Spirit guides the Church through the ages, in both East and West.

What is this [risu.org.ua] all about?

Andrew

There is a struglle in certain areas of Western Ukraine between SSPX alligned Greek Catholic priests and those faithful to the Archbishop and Synod.

The following page is from the Trans-alpine Redemptorist site and put out propoganda for SSPX Ukrainian priests denouncing the modernist Hierarchy of the UGCC while at the same time claiming not to be in schism, typical SSPX contradictory statements.

http://www.papastronsay.com/Ukraine.htm

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Friends,

The situation in western Ukraine is compounded by the fact that Latin practices are today seen as necessary "safeguards" against identification with Russian Orthodoxy - the old oppressor under the Soviet regime.

That whole thing led to the development of a Ukrainian Roman Catholic Church, composed largely of those who didn't want to go to the Underground Church but also refused to become Orthodox.

Then there are the Greek-Catholics who are more Roman than the Romans in their ways and outlook (ie. SSPX inclined). The depth of their Latinization would make us pause in awe . . .

Latinization in those areas also affects the Orthodox Church - with images of the Sacred Heart, Stations of the Cross and the like. These are not only badges of "Latinization," but, more specifically, badges of being "orthodox" in a more generic sense.

Thus, these devotions transcend RCism and if the Orthodox Church doesn't have them, then it is deemed "heretical" etc. Orthodoxy will be tolerated, as long as it has the Sacred Heart devotion etc.

The impact of all this is not surprising.

Alex

There is no competition. Unless some Apostolic era docs can be found in Latin or accounts of the Master in Gaul...

Whereas, the whole issue of Tridentine uccs isn't so startling. I remember them well in the 1970s SW Detroit neighbourhood I grew up in...

Dear Alex,
"Awe" does not adequately convey my response to the phenomena you mention!

Incognitus

I am of the view that thos who suffered during the soviet occupation did so because of the loyalty to the Pope and all that this union with him means. They did not want a bit of union and a bit of pleasing themselves. They did not endure torture and death or many years of suffering for a 1/2 hearted ideal. These people are being engaged with by the Pope not because he considers them his people but he is trying to get them back from where they have in error wandered off to. They are either with him in communion or not. Some of the comments in this stream seem to think that they can be a little bit pregnant here. sorry but the line is clear and no one said it was going to be an easy ride in the Catholic Church. Some are going to have to learn that they need to convert and reconvert on a daily basis their views and ideas to that held by the church. We all have to do this. It's not about our will but conformity with God's will. We do know what we have to do in this life and in the Catholic Church it is very clear what is expected of it's members.

While I share the general feeling about these schismatic Latinizers [surely the worst kind of Latinizers!] check out their monastery ! Wow, a North Sea island monastery! Pretty impressive to this Celt...
-Daniel

Dear Pavel Ivanovich,

You write "no one said it was going to be an easy ride in the Catholic Church."

Didn't Someone say "My yoke is easy and My burden light"?

Incognitus

Daniel I totally agree re the monastery BUT [ :p ] I'm not sure how many folk over here realise just exactly who they are.

Another question I have to ask - and no-one here is going to be able to answer it is - just where is all the money coming from ?? Not just the money required for the actual materials and erection but the transport costs - to Papa Stronsay they must be rather more than sky high !

I quiet agree on the phrase but we ahve to be prepared to drop everything and follow HIM. It is not just the goods of this world that hold us back but our inistance on ownership of points of view and attitudes. We are free when we take on HIS way and HIS attitudes and we know what they are because HIS church imparts this us. We have to be able to trust HIM and his Vicar the Pope.

Correction, there should be no competition, and if there is one, no one wins it, except in their own mind.