www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall President Obama

I recommend getting the DVD "Demographic Winter" which outlines how wrongheaded the "Population Bomb" scare of the 1970s is.

CDL

I'd like to add a few points as a practicing Catholic and as a Democrat who voted for Obama.

I voted for Obama, not because he is pro-abortion, but despite it.

That's because there is more to being pro-life than being anti-abortion. Human life goes on after pregnancy and birth. And people who are already born have needs too.

There are life and death issues besides abortion. Those issues include war, disease, poverty, and environmental degradation. Those might not seem like pressing issues that are equal in deadliness to abortion -- till you or your family is getting blown up, sick, starved or homeless, or poisoned. Yet millions of families face those issues right now, in all their deadliness, both here and outside of the United States.

And, there is more to human life than just being alive. For example, there is the economy. Specifically, there is the need for decent, productive work. That has been lost for millions of people in this country, and around the world, in the current economic recession. Maybe it's fair, and maybe it's not fair, but the recession happened on the Republicans' watch. If you like having a home that is warm, dry, stocked with food, and able to meet your needs -- the economy matters. And it was time for the economy to be under new management.

And then there is racism. It has killed a lot of people directly, and it has indirectly led to the deaths of many other people. Electing a black man to the White House went a long way to cure this country --and perhaps the world-- of that deadly evil.

And there was the erosion of the separation of Church and State. I'm all for the Church trying to criticize and cure social evils. But, I'm really against the Church trying to decide or influence elections. Yet, that is what has been happening once the Church hierarchy decided to treat abortion as the single issue that mattered to them. The trouble is, the Church becomes associated with one particular political party that way. But people who don't support that particular party might not want to stay or join the Church, as a result. It's making the Church into something political, instead of spiritual for everybody.

Finally, there was the rest of the world. Those issues --and that election -- were about more than just America. America, like it or not, is the current leader in the world. What we do has enormous consequences in the lives of billions of people. For them as well as for ourselves (in the U.S.), we needed someone to address all those issues with the whole world in mind.

This time around, in the election of 2008, I decided that these other issues needed addressing too, and not just abortion. I concluded that the Republicans weren't up to the job this time, and the Democrats are, so I voted for Obama and the Democrats.

Abortion is bad, and I am not for it. But there is more to being pro-life than being anti-abortion. And I thought it was time to take better care of the people living outside of the womb -- while still being anti-abortion.

-- John

Dear John,

Thank you for a fair post. Although I did not vote for Pres. Obama, I respect you, your decision, and the above reasons which you did...though wouldn't it be awesome if both parties were anti-abortion and then we could really focus on other issues and how they should be approached?

In Christ,
Alice

Yes, there is more to being pro-life then being anti-abortion. Yet the Church clearly teaches that abortion is an intrinsic evil. Issues like war and the economy are not intrinsic evils. If you look at the Church’s teachings on these issues you will see that added together all of the other issues do not outweigh the evil of the 40 million Americans tortured to death in the womb. I would urge to you actually examine the teachings of the Church and adopt them. Your position as you stated it is not actually Catholic. Please reconsider.

Let us all remember to pray for all or our elected officials.

Administrator,

You are exactly right. From a purely Natural Theological perspective I encourage John Harmon to look at this trailer for Demographic Winter http://bastardlogic.wordpress.com/2008/02/17/the-demographic-winter/

Besides the Natural Theology implications of this film the bottom line is that there is no justification for a Catholic voting for a Pro abortion candidate. I will admit that the Republicans have not done much against abortion but at least they've done something. There is no justification for voting for an outspoken supporter of abortion.

CDL

Thank you, Alice, John and Carson. Though we disagree on this last election, I thank you for your responses.

Alice wrote, "Wouldn't it be awesome if both [political] parties were anti-abortion and then we could really focus on other issues and how they should be approached?" Of course. But that is not where we are, in reality.

Instead, it has become a polarizing obsession on both sides of the issue. That concerns me. Any obsession clouds judgement and limits perspective.

Abortion won't end till more people, on both sides of the issue, work to reduce the number of abortions with compassion. But each side only wants to win. With a society that is evenly decided on this issue, winning is a nonsensical goal for the present. Mutual repentance, instead, is needed: in compassion. And here is what I mean: unless there is an organization of pro-life and pro-choice people working together, respecting each other, trying to offer alternatives to abortion with compassion, abortion will never be made illegal and the numbers won't be going down. In the abortion debate, the main group at issue is not the unborn; the main group is the people who are so afraid of us and of inconvenience in their lives that they would prefer to kill their own children. And to change their minds means showing them respect and compassion, so they don't fear us and so they figure out (by experience) that love is a better way than abortion. But that requires compassion, not solely winning. It also requires the spiritual force of an ascetic spiritual life.

-- John

Obama will increase the ease of which this genocide will continue and if he has a chance to appoint pro-abortion supreme court justices, he will do so.

There is only one issue----the murder of innocent children.
50 million and counting. They are the voiceless ones. They are the ones with no choice. They are the holy innocents.

Anyone who has voted for this man has supported the silent genocide and they have taken a huge burden upon their shoulders.

I pray daily for all those who supported the pro-abortion ticket.

John,

I can appreciate what you have said. If you were among the 300,000 pro-life witnesses last week at the March for Life in Washington, DC you would have seen that the crowd was both compassionate and joyful. Indeed, there is great compassion and little animosity on the pro-life side. But your most recent post simply does not address the issues or Catholic teaching. So long as you and good people like you put life issues second (after economic and other issues) as you did in your earlier post, the babies will continue to be murdered by the millions. Your vote for politicians who promise to keep this murder legal is in fact a vote for abortion.

You might listen closely to the rhetoric on the pro-abortion side. Abortion is a huge, profitable industry for groups like Planned Parenthood. They have no interest in reducing abortions. They have no interest in cooperating with pro-life groups who offer alternatives. They are interested only in profit. So I would recommend again that you re-evaluate your position and adopt the position of the Church - which is pro-life, and vote in the future for pro-life candidates. Voting for candidates who promise to not only to work to keep abortion legal but to establish a 'right' to a taxpayer funded abortion will do nothing to lower abortion rates.

John

Thank you John. Once again, you have spoken with clarity and truth.

"We did not declare war on Obama, Obama declared war on us."
(Fr Benedict Groeschel)

John,

You present the opportunity to present our country's future in a more humane and Christian way. Please consider the following:

_______

response -- The USA didn't become a superpower until after WWII, and has been declining since....... We should respect other countries sovereignty (including Iraq's circa 2002). Our Lady of Fatima warned the world in 1917 that Russia would "spread evil" throughout the world. Russia has been replaced by the USA as the spreader of evil with its "culture of death" through abortion, assisted suicide, inexhaustible appetite, pornorgraphy, "no-fault" divorce, and the destruction of Christian famaily life.

These are the reasons that people feel the Democrat party bosses have abandoned them. They have sold their souls to the evil one. Bringing their sins to their attention and praying for them is the RESPONSIBILITY of the Church. If it pretends there is nothing wrong then it has failed.

Christ is among us!
Fr. Deacon Paul

Terry,
Short term -- abortion, assisted suicide, and birth control saves welfare and food stamp money. Long term it will bankrupt our country --- there have been fifty million abortion since 1971....let's say half of them would now be paying income taxes and Social Security taxes, and positively affecting the economy by producing and consuming.... gee, maybe we would have wiped out the deficit and fully funded social security without increasing the retirement age.

A bankruput social policy leads to a bankrupt nation.

Fr Deacon Paul

The whole notion that all the other problems this world faces will be solved by Barack Hussien Obama is insane. Nor will the policies of the democratic party. We cannot tax our way to prosperity, we must grow on our own.

Government will not be the creator of jobs by build a road or funding corrupt businesses. That is temorary burst of money in a system that needs more hands off from the government and allow the inovative nature of our system to bring new oppertunities to the market.

This "stimulus" package is full of pork that has nothing to do with the correcting the economy. It is wrong and should be thrown out. I also said this about the other "stimulus" packages that came out last year that was a waste. There is no representation in Washington strong enough and not corrupt, to fight it, so we better get used to it. This country is full of illiterate voters who can't think their way out of the shadows of their own belief that government is the answer for all their own personal crosses. Sahmeful. Prayers for them all. May God enter their heart.

Alice,
I in no way agree with you. How can we tolerate evil!
When President Obama takes money out of taxpayers pockets to abort innocent children, he can no longer claim with any legitimacy that he wants to reduce the number of abortions preformed here and abroad. Forcing Americans to pay for killing of innocents will not bring us together, there can be no common ground when the ground is soacked with innocent blood.

Stephanos I

HUH?!?!

Dear Father, I did NOT vote for him because of that and other personal reasons!! Infact, I posted this yesterday:



John is my friend, and all I said was that his post was fair in that atleast he explained/defended his vote for the democratic party...he deserved us to atleast hear him out. Atleast he didn't vote for the new president because of any of the nonsensical reasons many people voted for him!

I don't think you have read many of my posts on this topic, because if you did, you would certainly know how I feel on this issue...

Respectfully and confusedly,
Alice

Thank you, Alice. I know we disagree on some matters, but that just makes me all the more thankful for your friendship.

-- John