www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Is there any hope?

I've written letters to the bishops. They did not bother to reply.

I've written a letter to Cardinal Sandri at the Oriental Congregation. He didn't respond.

The bishops obviously do not care about people like me who want our real Ruthenian Divine Liturgy. The whole thing. Translated correctly. Without politically correct language. And with music we actually know and can sing.

What else can we do?

I see all the well-written posts here that show the mistakes of the Revised Divine Liturgy. They don't get a response from the people who forced the RDL upon us. These people really don't care about the church. They don't care about us. They want us to leave so they can make more changes. They think if they ignore us everyone will get used to the bad liturgy and stop working to get it fixed.

Is there anything else we can do?

What?

We sometimes go St. Theodosius Cathedral. It's full of life. St. John's Cathedral is pretty dead. If someone like me can see that the difference between live and dead parishes is how they celebrate the liturgy why can't the bishops?

Or are they on a mission to destroy our Ruthenian Church?

Lady Byzantine,

When you come here and call our bishops "These people" and say they "really don't care about the church" and "They don't care about us" what response do you expect? Rather than listen to Admin John's advice and remain respectful of our bishops you and others come here and deride them.

I see parishes that use the RDL that are full of life, somehow I don't think you would be willing to see life in any parish using the RDL.

If you want the Ruthenian Liturgy why don't you go to the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral? They have it. You aren't going to find it at the OCA Cathedral.

I am not trying to be insensitive, I realize that the RDL has caused consternation and pain for some just as the NO caused it for some Latin Catholics when it was promulgated. However, disrespecting the bishops and running them down is not the answer.

What can you do? Respect them, pray for them, and perhaps search and drive. I am sure some where in the Cleveland area is an older priest using the 64 Liturgicon just like there is in Pittsburgh. But don't expect things to be resolved this year, next year, or anytime soon. It took the SSPX 20 years to get the Tridentine Rite unfettered and their excommunications lifted.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I beg your pardon Deacon Lance. Have you ever attended St. Theodosius Cathedral? The complete liturgy is beautifully served. The Eastern Catholics and even some Orthodox should emulate this gem of a parish.

Etnick,

I beg your pardon. My comments were not directed at the beauty of their services, which I am sure are lovely. My point is they are serving, in Catholic terminology, the Vulgate Recension (also known as the Russian or Nikonian usage) not the Ruthenian Recension, which Lady Byzantine states she wants. That is to be found in Byzantine and Ukrainian Catholic Churches, the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA, not the OCA.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I guess my point was that the OCA uses what is basically the "Red Book" according to the Nikonian usage. The ACROD does not use this, and the Ukrainian Orthodox parishes I've been to use a slightly different version.

A Byzantine Catholic parish (pre RDL) in my area used to use the identical liturgy my OCA parish uses.

Father Deacon Lance writes:

Here we go again. Ukrainian Catholic Churches, the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA, and the OCA are each and all "Byzantine". For one jurisdiction to attempt apply this term exclusively to themselves is ridiculous and only causes needless confusion.

Fr. Serge

At the risk of being seen as a petty and condescending Latin (which I am not) I really think that it would help if Byzantine-Rite Catholics all over the world who want pure Byzantine observance in their liturgies would band together and form an international organization dedicated to this.

The Traditional Latin Mass would not have been restored where it not for groups such as Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce, which over four decades served as the international umbrella for national associations dedicated to the EF whilst maintaining communion with Rome. Groups such as these engaged in intense and constant communication with Rome over the status and rights of the classical Roman Rite over four decades! There were also meticulous and elaborate directories on when and where the TLM is available.

For starters, I think that it would be good if a sort of directory of Byzantine Catholic parishes that serve the full cycle of Sunday services (e.g. Vespers and / or Matins prior to Divine Liturgy) and that have a purely Byzantine liturgy (no latinizations, no minimalism), could be compiled.

Well...hierarchs who care would respond to letters from their flock. Especially in miniscule Churches such as the The Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui iuris of Pittsburgh, Inc. With only perhaps 10-20,000 members left in the pews in total the least that could be sent is a quick postcard thanking one for caring enough to write. It is our duty as Christians to correct our Bishops when they err...in charity of course!

Don't look to Rome for help. That patriarchal church has its own issues to contend with. Moreover, we have told Rome to leave us alone. We can manage our own affairs in all our sui iuris glory. We are teenagers with the keys to the Dodge Charger.

Sadly, our sui iuris church is at the end of the line. That is the message that has been delivered to the Laity of our church through the actions of our leaders. The Liturgy was another nail in the coffin. Instead of reclaiming our precious patrimony, we embraced inclusive language. Instead of stretching our hearts and minds to praise our ineffable God, we reduced the DL to a 45-minute Mass. Sublimity lost to the ages of ages.

Why not go to the UGCC? Not possible?

Lady Byzantine, you are in a position like many of us. We are in a Church that does not want to live a meaningful existence. A Church that is content with mediocrity.

What does it mean to be an Orthodox Christian in communion with the Church of Rome? That is the key to our destiny as Byzantine Catholics. I ask myself this simple (an profound) question everyday. There is a reason why so many Carpatho-Russians left for what is now the OCA and then for what is now ACROD. Some of these reasons still exist in our Church.

What else can we do? Pray. Pray again.

The tornado has already destroyed our Church. It is time for the survivors to regroup and build anew.

It has been about 16 months since I left the Ruthenian Catholic Church for the OCA. I continue to pray for my Eastern Catholic brethren every day.

Just to clarify, the freeing of the Tridentine Mass began in 1988, and not with the recent suspension of the excommunications. The "indult" Mass, the Fraternity of St. Peter, and other options for the TLM have been in process since 1988. And, as asianpilgrim well summarizes, the work of Una Voce and other similar organizations.

It took the SSPX 20 years to get the Tridentine Mass freed from an indult a bishop could refuse to the present freedom of any priest to say it who desires.

Again, it was not solely the SSPX but perhaps more importantly those who diligently worked within the Church under those restrictions such as the FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, Bishop Rifan, Fr. Aulugnier, the monks of Le Barroux and Fontgamboult, etc. for the development of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum.

It is a year and a half since that promulgation, and while there are signs of the ice thawing we have yet to see the SSPX agree to anything formally. In any case I don't think the situation with the SSPX and the RDL are that comparable.

My point was with the lenght of time it took, regardless of who worked for it SSPX, FSSP whoever.

I see even less of a chance with a Rome-implemented change of the RDL compared to the situation with the TLM for several reasons. First of all there is no organization along the lines of Una Voce within the BCCA (nor likely is there enough interest for such a thing by enough remaining people to make it happen).

Secondly the TLM movement was quite large, and often vocal and public, and even within the Latin Church it took a significant amount of time. I greatly doubt the letter writing over the RDL amounts to even a fraction of the continuous bombardment over the years regarding the TLM.

I personally think Rome is going to sit this one out and let the BCCA as the only involved Church sui iuris work it out as a matter of internal liturgical discipline. So to answer the opening question, not in the forseeable future. Rome has far too many internal and external crises, as Ivan Putovati correctly observes above, to worry about (from Rome's perspective) a seemingly insignificant internal liturgical affair within a small Church sui iuris .

I simply don't see that any Eastern Bishop has the authority to demand that a priest or the laity use a liturgy which excludes words (filioque excluded) from the Creed or the Liturgy. Many in the East are concerned about the legitimate authority of the Pope and whether he can change the Creed of an Ecumenical Council. See

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/307989/1

What about the authority of the Ruthenian Bishops, however good their intentions may be? Perhaps that is why the Ruthenian Bishops have not attempted to bring any canonical penalties against the laity who have gone elsewhere; the Bishops perhaps have even encouraged many to leave if they find the distortion of the language repulsive.

I know that no one likes to stick his neck out, but the fact is, in this day and age, laity and clergy alike are going to have to stand up for what is true in both the civil and religious sphere--only then will things change. And yes, it will cost something, but nothing at all really, compared to the martyrs.