The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
EasternChristian19, James OConnor, biblicalhope, Ishmael, bluecollardpink
6,161 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (EastCatholic), 451 guests, and 84 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,511
Posts417,528
Members6,161
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1
I did know at the time, but, alas, I've forgotten. If anyone has access to the relevant issue of Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, the information might be in there.

Fr. Serge

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Here is the sort of thing I am worried about.
On page 9 of "Service Book" (Hapgood 6th Edition) in Great Vespers there is this

[quote]Again we pray for (the Ruler of the Land ...); for his might, victory, maintenance, peace, health, salvation; and that the Lord out God will abundantly aid and prosper him in all things, and [b]subdue under his feet every foe and adversary[/b].[/quote]

Now if you plug in the name of various 20th century apostate Rulers in Ukraine, along with the names of the groups of people they stated were their "foes and adversaries" you get some sickening results.
For example:
Ruler=Lenin/Stalin, stated adversaries=Kulaks/Priests
Ruler=Hitler, stated adversaries=Jews/uncooperative Slavs

If a Greek-rite priest in Ukraine found himself under one of these Rulers and was supposed to use this form of prayer, was he at liberty to omit such commemorations of the Ruler (for instance if the priest knew the Nazis intended to "subdue" the Jews in his parish)? Or do such changes have to await instructions from the bishop?
I suppose if the priest knew about Benedict XIV's Ex Quo, he could utilise the instruction not to commemorate a heretic.

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090
Likes: 15
Global Moderator
Member
Global Moderator
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090
Likes: 15
I notice a certain circuity in this discussion, which seems to be continually seeking to refocus on identifying priestly failings in commemorating secular leaders whose politics, beliefs, and/or practices were particularly repugnant, odious, sinful - what have you. It's a certainty that some wretched cleric, somewhere, of most any church or denomination that one might name, prayed for, commemorated, or gave thanks for acts by dictators that would repulse most God-fearing people. Is it essential that we root out the identity of such persons? No, because judgement is not ours, but the Lord's.

I think the subject has been adequately explored and given that witch-hunting is passe, the thread is closed.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0