www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West If this be true

If the following is true and we all buy into it and it leads inevitably to the ECs cessation what would you do. Since we don't have polls I will offer a few options.

1. Become Orthodox.

2. Do whatever your priest does.

3. Become Roman Catholic

4. Become Protestant.

5. Other

Ukraine Greek Catholics Main Obstacle in Russian Orthodox/ Roman Catholic Relations, Says UOC-MP

09.02.2009, [16:47] // UOC-MP / RISU.ORG.UA
KYIV— The head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate (UOC-MP), Patriarch Volodymyr (Sabodan), held a press-conference on 3 February 2009 in which he shared his thoughts about the recent hierarchical and church-wide sobors [assemblies] of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). Responding to a question about Russian Orthodox and Roman Catholic relations, he noted that the relations between those churches remain quite complicated mainly because of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. «Our relations with the Roman Catholic Church were not established today. They have a history and are backed by a certain experience. This dialogue should take place, for we are called to certain unity and joint service to the Lord and people. Of course, we will not compromise Orthodox traditions and rules. Neither is the Roman Catholic Church going to do so. Our relations have been quite complicated, and remain so. Frankly speaking, the main reason for this status quo is the [Ukrainian] Greek Catholic Church,” said Metropolitan Volodymyr.

I'll never be Protestant again.

This is the same person who just said his own Church is not ready for and does not deserve autocephaly, while a growing majority of believers in Ukraine apparently do not agree with him in belonging to other Orthodox jurisdictions [especially the UOC-KP]. And neither is it surprising that a bishop of the MP continues to question the need for the existence of the Greek Catholics or accuse them of being the stumbling block to unity. The other Orthodox hierarchs in Ukraine have not done this nor called the existence of the UGCC a stumbling block. Some things have unfortunately not changed since the Soviet era.

It is a bit premature to be singing "Vichnaya pamyat" for any Greek Catholic Churches. But in any case I would trust the decision of my Patriarch and Synod.

Roman Catholics seem to have little use for us as well. Right now I'd follow my priest.

CDL

As Patriarch Josyp said after his release from the gulag, we Greek Catholics carry two crosses - one of separation from our Orthodox brethren after the Union and one of misunderstanding and lack of respect by the Latin majority, even though we have given the sacrifice of millions of martyrs for fidelity to the Union. It can be a great opportunity for witness to unity.

I would become orthodox probably

Since the claim that we are the stumbling block to Church unity in Ukraine is both false and ridiculous, trying to imagine what one would do if it turned out to be true (and just, how, pray, could that happen?) is a complete waste of time and effort.

Fr. Serge

Blaming the Ukrainian Greek Catholics - often accusing them of stealing Orthodox churches in the Ukraine when they were taking back the ancestral parish churches the Communists stole from them! - is standard from many Russian Orthodox leaders as an excuse not to talk to Rome.

No, people who've been under Rome for 400 years and happy to mind their own business - no threat at all to the Russian Church - aren't the stumbling block.

Irreconcilable beliefs on the scope of the Pope are.

If the Greek Catholic churches somehow disappeared tomorrow most of the Galician-Ukrainian and Ruthenian rank and file, certainly in North America, would become Roman Catholic. (Galician-Ukrainians for understandable historical reasons don't like Poles and so are not Roman Rite but I think they don't like Russians more. Thanks to assimilation and self-latinisation the Irish RC bishops in North America like the late John Ireland have largely got their way; the Greek Catholics are disappearing.) The Orthodox in communion with Rome in North America (very few) would do what they've been doing anyway and become Orthodox.

(Once met a Romanian family who at least functionally have been Roman Rite since the Communists handed over the Greek Catholics to the Orthodox.)

Rome will not hand over the Greek Catholics to the Orthodox: competing one-true-church claims make that impossible.

What Patriarch Josyp said is true. The million-dollar question is does the only Roman distinctive in all this, the scope of the Pope, make that inevitable for Eastern Catholics? Yes, say most Orthodox. No, say the OicwR. 'What? We're under the Pope and not Orthodox; we're Catholics', say most Greek Catholics.

The 'extracurricular' Ukrainian Orthodox, at least the KP, seem to cosy up to the UGCC as part of their nationalism.

P.S. The Orthodox in America have attrition thanks to assimilation as well.

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True.

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To elaborate: It depends on how well catechized Greek Catholics are as to where they might go next. It also hinges on how the local Greek Catholic Churches perceive themselves in terms of vision, mission and ecclesiology. With the Kievan-Constantinopolitan Slavic Churches as an example… The ecclesiology of the UGCC hinges on an understanding of "particularity and communion." I have never seen the BCCA articulate how it understands itself. I would be grateful if someone could share the G2.

Some see us as a catalyst in the quest for reunion between east and west.

No one seems to be operating on reality but upon perception. Doesn't Balamand make us redundant?

No matter what the reality, I'm with John S, I sure wish our hierarchs would deign to tell us what reality is and then lead us in living it.

CDL

I put my thoughts on the "Are we redundant" thread, and I won't repeat them fully here, but I'll throw out a little thought.

We are not a project, we are not a "mission of reunion", we are Churches and Faithful as fully Apostolic and grounded in the Ancient Traditions as any Latins or Orthodox. We exist because (I hope) we believe we should, namely that we should be fully Eastern AND we should be in full Communion with Rome and the Pope. That we are viewed as a stumbling block by some (or at least set up as a scape-goat) doesn't change these fundamental facts about us at all. It reflects on those who would make such accusations, not on us. It shows that they're still trapped in the mindset of "uniatism" and "us versus them", and don't have an appreciation for was a true Church really is. I feel sorry for them, but it doesn't affect my identity in any way. If my Church was somehow "dissolved", I'd likely go to the local Antiochian Orthodox Church and be a vocal, constant, and staunch advocate for Reunion with Rome. I like to hope that we'd be right back at 1724.

I realize that being tied with the Melkite Church my perspective may be a bit different than that of our Eastern European brothers and sisters (and the members of those Churches), but I figure my view has its place as well.

Peace and God bless!

It is true. Sure we are redundant...at least in the Pittsburgh Metropolia we are.

Personally, I would become Orthodox. As Young Fogey correctly states, "the Orthodox in communion with Rome in North America (very few) would do what they've been doing anyway and become Orthodox."

There are very few of us left. The seminary is a ghost town and we are not evangelizing the world around us. We are importing priests from the old country, but refuse to seriously grow our own vocations. Why do we exist? An accident of history. It seems that our little church doesn't have the will to survive. It isn't really Rome's fault. We let multiple opportunities slip away to be ourselves. Why? 10 years from now we will have a few parishes left scattered across the country. Perhaps some kindly Latin Bishop will protect us.

Are we really tending to our spiritual needs?

It seems like the Church has ground to a complete halt since the New Divine Liturgy dropped out of the sky on us little people here in holupki land. That was the scope of renewal this time around.

Most Holy Mother of God Save Us!

Ivan,

I agree. Do you think there is a chance for the few who stick it out to someday rise up and do something significant? There are people, perhaps like yourself, who are waiting to help the Church grow. Perhaps a private conversation might make some difference.

CDL