www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall priestly wages

I am aware that within the nations where Orthodoxy is the state religion clergy are usually given a wage, but what about those countries like the u.s where it is not? I just read this article [orthodoxengland.org.uk] which suggested that they are not helped financially by their bishop . I only ask because I am amazed that some married clergy I have met/heard of can hold down secular jobs. I hope this isn't taken as disrespectful or too nosey.

In Christ

David.

Dear David (that definitely sounds better than 'dear dewi'!! ),

In the Greek Orthodox church, priest's wages are paid by the community.

Alice

The Orthodox clergy that I have known in this part of PA have had to maintain secular employment simply to support their families. The churches they serve are small and cannot offer them any kind of living wage. It's sad, but a testament to their dedication to Christ and serving the believers.

BOB

Indeed, and I bow to them in utmost reverence...they and their wives, who struggle for the glory of God, are the true ministers of Orthodoxy in America. May God bless them with many graces and a crown of glory in the next life.

Alice

At my parish, Father does a phenomenal job of balancing a parish, a family, and a secular job. He's never complained once.

It must be incredibly hard. I would think especially for priests wives.

A number of Eastern Rite Catholic priests married and single hold down day jobs, as their parish can't as yet afford to pay them a living wage.

There are also Eastern Catholic parishes which could certainly raise enough money to make substantial, regular contributions to support a priest in a small, poor parish. Hint, hint!

Fr. Serge

It's not just the Orthodox or Eastern Catholic married priests who have problems with having a family and getting paid enough to support them. My wife plays the organ in a fairly small Lutheran church in our town and the married minister there left a few years ago. Why? His wife was working full time to support their family (only the two of them, by the way, no children) and the minister was offered a position at a larger church in another town. He took the other job so he could better serve his church (donating more money) and his wife could work only part time--allowing her to better serve the church as well, since she volunteered as much time as possible. Married priests and ministers are often in a position to live in almost poverty in order to follow their hearts. And the wives quite often work just as hard as their husbands do, no matter the denomination. If not for their work, either in the secular field or in the church, the world would be a much poorer place. Hat's off to the wives! They deserve much more credit than they get.

Tim


Tim

I think priests should get paid enough money not to have to work a secular job. There is really no excuse for parishes not paying priests enough. Really no excuse.

Ours gets a house, all utilities, and health insurance and $24,000.00 a year. He is happy.

I read some interesting research about this subject some years ago. It seems that Christians are the only people who think their clergy should live in poverty--and I don't know if it's some mistaken notion about separating the spiritual and the material.

The same research showed that the Jews think their rabbi should be paid very well and they expected that the rabbi should make a very good living because of the value they palced on his spiritual value to the membership of the congregation.

So the question becomes do we really value the great gift that the priest brings to us--making Christ present to us during the Liturgy and making the channels of grace in the Mysteries available.

As far as small parishes go, where is the model for them? In the Old Testament prescirptions for the Paschal Lamb. "If a family is too small for a whole lamb, (let them go to a larger family and share in the lamb there in proportion to the number of persons)." (Can't pull out the complete verse and I have to run.

BOB

They do not need more credit, they need more money. (Tim, sorry for the pun... couldn't resist.) 8 years or more of post secondary education and the opportunity to live just above poverty level and we sometimes wonder why we have no vocations to the priesthood.

My attorney sits on the board of his synagogue, and when he told me the compensation package of his rabbi-six figure income, retirement, housing allowance, sabbatical, etc- to which I replied, "so that's what happened when the gentiles took over the Church."

While some think that may be good, I will have to explain this from a different perspective. According to the IRS code, his church-provided housing and utilities are a taxable part of his income and must be declared according to a formula that is based on the size and condition of the housing along with the fair-market rent of the area he lives in. In other words, that housing may add 25 to 100 percent to his pre-tax income. At the end of the year, that may cost him dearly especially if it is on the higher end, thus putting him way below the poverty line in actual funds he will have after his tax bill. For those that may want to try to fudge this, the IRS requires an annual reassessment and certification of this valuation by an independent assessor. The same would apply in most states that have an income tax also.

Just something for all to think about.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

David,

I have heard that the Greek Orthodox Church is wealthy and that it pays its priests well in the U.S. I don't know that for a fact, but that's what I've heard.

Most of my experience was with the OCA. From what I have heard, from members and clergy, the OCA seems to be poor; and it seems to pay its priests poorly. I have especially heard that about the small, aging, shrinking churches in the rust belt; some of them just don't *have* money to pay decently for a priest. I have heard, however, that other churches in the OCA do have the money and just choose to not pay well. Overall, I think most OCA parishes sincerely *try* to pay their priests a decent wage. Sometimes that isn't enough, though... I have read and heard about OCA priests who *must* hold down secular jobs to support themselves (and their families). The one that took my breath away was the priest who worked a hot dog stand some years ago. It was a living...

Worse still was what I heard about the ROCOR; I heard that those guys were REALLY poor ... I personally knew one man who had had been a ROCOR priest. He was a pastor, and he had a full time professional job, and he was a husband and father. After trying for several years to juggle all three roles (pastor, professional, family man), he was becoming burned out, and he couldn't afford it financially. So, he joined the Greeks. And the Greeks were able to pay him enough that he could quit his secular job, raise his family, and just be a priest.

The toughest nut to crack, I hear, is the insurance. Providing the wage can be do-able, but paying the insurance can be really hard for a church.

I haven't heard anything about the other jurisdictions; so I can't comment.

-- John