www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography St. Joseph the Natural Father of the Lord?

I've seen various references to Byzantine criticisms of much contemporary Catholic iconography of St. Joseph. Among other things, the said icons are criticized as implying that St. Joseph is the natural Father of Jesus.

What are these icons, and how does an icon imply that Jesus had a natural human father?

The "Holy Family Icon" depicts an embrace (usually from the chest up) of the Theotokos on one side, the child Jesus in the middle, and Joseph the Betrothed on the other. It not so much implies Joseph as the natural father, but that he and Mary had a physical marital relationship they did not have.

This analysis strikes me as highly questionable, in the least. How does a chaste embrace "from the chest up" between two parents, even when one is only "adoptive," invite the inference of sexual activity?

I think we're talking about the rules of iconography.

I did not gather that from Byzantine TX post. It sounded more like a projection of his own very personal reaction to the image.

That's the explanation I remember more or less from Fr Serge.

By that logic, what of icons of the Apostles Peter and Paul embracing? Or does that rule only apply to people of opposite sexes?

Dave

I don't think that the embrace is what is exactly the problem, though the only embrace I can think of between a man and woman in an icon is the embrace between Ss Joachim and Anna in the icon known as "The Conception of St Anna." I think that the problem with the usual depictions of the "Holy Family" is that the Righteous Joseph is typically depicted as being little older than the Mother of God. They seem a bit like the "perfect couple" and their "little family" a model for Christian family life. Well, it just ain't so folks! St Joseph, according to the Tradition of the Church was a very old man, while the Mother of God was quite young, perhaps thirteen or fourteen, at their betrothal and marriage. And since the Mother of God is ever-virgin, and no marital relations ever took place between her and St Joseph, the "Holy Family" cannot be regarded as a model for Christian marriage or family life. We are dealing here with the most unique of situations. Undoubtedly, the Righteous Joseph loved the Theotokos, but I think that this love bore more resemblance to veneration than to romantic love.

By the way, I'm not sure the "Holy Family" is an ancient appellation for the Saviour, the Mother of God, and the Righteous Joseph. I think it is probably pretty recent.

Fr David Straut

Dear Father David,



Ofcourse this is so true, and ofcourse we know the unchanged tradition of the Church (I think that those Roman Catholic (no offense meant to our Roman Catholics here) clerics who suddenly want to depict St. Joseph a 19 year old teenager are dangerously wrong--thirty--which was once considered much older than it is today, is about as young as I would personally accept), but I don't think that you can deny that St. Joseph *can* be an awesome model for fatherhood...in his labor, in his taking care and helping raise his charge, Jesus, and in his protecting and caring for the Theotokos.

Perhaps in that way, we can see him as a model of what a family man should be...since romantic love and relations are just one very small part of the dynamics of what constitutes a good and succesful Christian family....

I know that my priest likes to look at him as a role model for fatherhood, since after all, he was chosen and given the most blessed of all responsibilities given a man, by God himself!

What do you think? Do I have a point?

Respectfully,
In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,

You certainly do have a point. I feel close to Righteous Joseph the Betrothed (the usual appellation for him in Orthodox circles), especially since he is commemorated on my Nameday with my Patron Saint, the Prophet-King David, and with St James the Brother of God, who is St Joseph's son by his first wife. I often ask his intercession to be a good father to my children and husband to my wife, as well as to acquire purity of heart.

Good Fast!

Fr David

I think we have to be very careful not to stray from our own Orthodox traditions.

Let's look at what our liturgies have to say about St. Joseph.

Also, there is no need to adopt symbols and trends from other churches because they are popular in other churches.

For example, in the Orthodox Church, Sts. Adrian and Natalia are the patron saints of marriage.
Why add these new and foreign ideas to our tradition now?

With all due respect, dear Halia, I do not think that Father David or I have insinuated adding new and foreign ideas to Orthodx tradition in any of our posts.

We are free to pray to any saint for any need we may have, whether or not they have a particular cult of intercession for a particular intention associated with them or not.

For instance, if a man is seeking employment, one can pray to St. Joseph, since he was a provider for the Theotokos and our Lord, to St. Nektarios, to St. Xenia of Petersburg, or the Panaghia, etc. Who is to say, except the Lord and His saint, and our own hearts and feeling of closeness to the saint's life, which one should be prayed to over the other?

For marriage, who is one to say that we cannot beseech St. John Kronstadt (married though not a consummated union), Sts. Peter and Fevronia, St. Xenia of Petersburg or the Holy Royal (Romanoff) passion-bearer/martyrs Nicholas and Alexandra, for their help and example as persons having been married while on earth?

St. Joseph the betrothed is one of the few examples of fatherhood we have in the communion of saints, so what is wrong with looking to him, as my very Orthodox priest does, as a good example?!?

Sincerely,
In Christ,
Alice

Well, since the middle of the 20th century this seems to have been the dominant idea in Catholicism -- that St. Joseph was a young and vigorous man, perhaps even in his late teens. I'm not sure where the idea came from, but it was propounded with great vigor by St. Josemaria Escriva (who favored the idea of a "teenage" St. Joseph)

Here is an interesting blog post:

http://www.franciscanfocus.com/2006/08/josephology-on-josephs-age-at-his.htm

I have great respect for the Eastern tradition, but I do think that the case for a very young St. Joseph is well worth studying.

Dear Asian Pilgrim,

While I would agree that 80 years old is extreme, I am inclined to think that 19 is also quite extreme.

Depicting St. Joseph as very old may have been a very safe way to preserve the Virgin Mary's reputation to cultures which may have otherwise not been able to accept it... (as your link also says.)

On the other hand, it is my opinion that depicting St. Joseph as very young can be very dangerous as far as preserving the Virgin Mary's reputation, and in actively promoting that idea (I have already heard one RC priest and the Archbishop of NYC do this), in these extremely confused times where young people cannot easily accept the notion of chastity, your Church may be opening a pandora's box for another heresy to crop up.

As an Orthodox Christian, I am inclined to accept and to believe in Holy Tradition, and believe that 'older' and 'widowed' could have easily meant thirty or forty in those days.

Sometimes, when we try too hard to analyze and change things, it backfires. This happened after Vatican II in many ways. Personally, I think that it might be a good thing, and I say this with all love and respect, for the Roman Catholic church to stop trying to change its traditions so much.

Please forgive me if I have offended you.

In Christ,
Alice

I agree. One of my country's senior Archbishops once complained to me that some priests now preach that St. Joseph and the Holy Mother of God had marital relations because "they were young, so young, and could not have been chaste".



No offense at all. I perfectly agree that too much has been changed. My only plea is that, perhaps, the case for the young St. Joseph should be studied as carefully. If it is really unacceptable, then let there be explanations as to why it should not be accepted.