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The Music Schedule annually put out by SSJC says otherwise. I have PDF copies of the Music schedules for 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 and these clearly indicate that the liturgical actions for Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter Vigil in St. John Cantius are all in the Ordinary Form.

From what I can tell, the members of SSJC personally prefer the 1962 Missal; however, for pastoral reasons, they continue to give the Pauline liturgical books preponderance in their public celebration of the liturgy.

Furthermore, the SSJC recite the Office of Readings everyday -- not Matins-Lauds, which would be the case if they use the 1961 Divine Office.

Why do you find this good news? Having grown up with the Tridentine Mass (carried out beautifully, by the way) into my young adulthood, and lived the Orthodox ethos for a good many subsequent years, I find it the antithesis to any liturgical experience I've had therein. I feel the Novus Ordo, while not always done well in many Latin Catholic parishes, in it's intent and character, is much closer in spirit to the Byzantine way that calls for full, active participation on the part of all. The Church is not a museum or a place for nostalgic theatrics.

Sorry Asian Pilgrim, I meant to say, they always give Latin priority.

Utroque,

What is "full, active participation" to you? Is it somehow synonymous with every layperson singing? If a person doesn't sing, does that mean he is not actively participating?

I, for one, have got to say that I take offense at your apparent dismissal of the resurgence of the Traditional rites as "nostalgic theatrics."

Alexis

At the Low Mass I went to on Monday, I had to concentrate much harder to follow along (no missal) than during the Novus Ordo.

Dr. Eric,

Is that a good or bad thing (for you)?

Alexis

Was that your first time at a TLM?

I think that anyone who says that the TLM doesn't require participation is really obfuscating the issue. It requires much more attention span than the Missal of Paul VI.

I was especially struck by how many times the Sign of the Cross is made. It is much more like the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in that regard. My brain still goes into a 1950s robot "Does... Not... Compute..." mode when I try to wrap my head around why the Church allowed the changes that She did.

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I am waiting to attend a High Mass to compare the two Liturgies. But, that will have to wait until my son makes his First Holy Communion- then Catechism will be over.

Forgive me, I did not mean to offend anyone. It is just my opinion that dragging old birettas, lace-bottomed albs and fiddle-front chasubles out of sacristy closets in order to recreate a time and style which is no more, is nostalgic theatrics. Quite frankly, when I see this, I feel as if I’m in a time warp, and that’s not good for me or the Church.

Full, active participation is about the engagement of body and soul in the liturgical activity taking place in the church. I had in mind more proclamation and response rather than hymn singing although that, too, is part of the full and active participation in the liturgy the Fathers gathered in Council at the Vatican had in mind when they sought to breathe life and spirit back into a liturgical tradition that had been smothered in staccato rubrics and pinched by an ignorance of a Tradition much older than Trent.

The motu proprio,” Summorum Pontificum”, permitting the unrestricted use of the, so called, Tridentine Mass had more to do with stifling discord and fostering unity in the western Church than encouraging a “resurgence” of this extraordinary form that gives comfort to many. This is good news.

This is curious from a person whose moniker is a Latin phrase meaning conflicted or pulled from both sides.

The same argument could be made in your first paragraph that dressing up like a Byzantine Emperor and trying to recreate the nostalgia one feels for Justinian's day. (No one who has read my 4000+ posts could say that I feel that way.)

Active participation doesn't necessarily mean that one has to do anything. Does a quadriplegic miss out because he can't kneel or bow? How about a mute, does he not participate because he can't sing?

It seems to me that the liturgy doesn't have to be "smothered in staccato rubrics and pinched by an ignorance of a Tradition much older than Trent." It is probably the case that the Holy Father is hoping that by liberalizing the use of the 1962 Missal that some of the reverence will rub off onto the 1970 Missal.

I'm doing my best to bite my lip on this one, only 30 something days to go...

You certainly have out-posted me, doctor, but if your son is a first communicant, you probably have not out-lived me. In any case, "utroque" is the Latin word for "both", and there is no need for you to get "ad hominem", or shall we say "ad nominem alienum".

I was not trying to make an argument. I found your response about "nostalgia for Justinian's day" a non-sequitur, unless, of course, you are old enough to have lived then.

"...Spiritum Sanctum de Utroque procedentem et in Utroque permanentem, sanctam et individuam Trinitatem, unum Deum omnipotentem."

I am not confused or torn from both sides, but delight in both.

Good article by the famed Msgr. Schuler about participatio activa and participatio actuosa: http://www.catholicliturgy.com/inde...xt/Index/65/SubIndex/120/ArticleIndex/35

Alexis

Utroque,

You say that dragging out birettas, lace albs, and Roman chasubles is "recreating a time and style that is no more" as well as being "nostalgic theatrics."

Do you have anything other than your personal prejudice to back this up?

A time and a style that is no more? Funny, because it's going on right now! And it's growing.

Could I not say the same thing about the 1970s Novus Ordo Mass I have to suffer through every Sunday while away at college? Is that not the epitome of a time and style that is no more, of aged hippies and their nostalgic theatrics?

Not to mention that if the Traditional Mass were truly just an act of nostalgic theatrics, it would be drawing mostly people of your age (old enough to remember the Bad Old Days), not people my age (born during perestroika). The Traditional Mass is known to attract young people, who (surprise, surprise) thirst for a little mystery, depth, and beauty in a world, and too often an Ordinary Form, centered on the Self.

Alexis

Alexis,

I am much more sympathetic with you than you may think. I just do not feel that the wide-spread use of the Tridentine Mass as I have seen it carried out is the answer. Every Pope since Paul VI (Bless his holy memory!) up to our present Holy Father has used the so called "Novus Ordo" (It is actually Antiquus Ordo), and they have given us the answer. Liturgical abuse is always a danger, and the poor over-site of some bishops and the banality of many priests is reprehensible. Long live Gregorian chant and the Latin language!