www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Darwin's Theory of evolution

Hello:

OK, right from the start I want folks to know that I am not trying to throw a bomb into the room and watch it wreck havoc on this forum.

I would like to know what the Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches teach in regards to Darwins Theory of Evolution.

For those that are interested please follow the following link regarding a BBC article stating that The Vatican will be hosting a conference regarding Darwin's Theory. I will keep my thoughts to myself. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7920205.stm

In Christ:
Einar

I am not aware of any official Church response to Darwin's theory about humans evolving from monkeys.

The last Tsar Nicholas II - effectively head of the Russian Orthodox Church before the revolution - seems to have believed in a dangerous "Darwinism for other races" which was common at the time. For example [books.google.co.uk] "Nicholas called all Japanese 'monkeys'".

Of course Human Evolution was heavily promoted under the Communist education system in the Soviet Union. Many people who have influenced the Church in recent decades grew up under that system. Even so the late Patriarch Alexis II said this [stetson.edu]

I don't believe that there is any "official" Orthodox position on scientific theories of the evolution of the human race.

The Orthodox do not have a central magesterial authority to make pronouncements on every issue. Orthodox Hierarchs and Theologians respond to modern doctrinal challenges and problems based upon what they find in Holy Tradition (the Scriptures, the Liturgical services, the Ecumenical Councils, the teaching of the Fathers).

In listening to the various sides of Orthodox opinion on this issue, I do not believe that a consensus is possible now. I wonder whether it is even wise to pronounce on a theory that seems to be ever changing. Classic Darwinism is no longer accepted by the scientific community.

I personally wish that the scientific community was less dogmatic and allowed for more dissent from its absolute endorsement of evolutionary theory. I am no scientist, but it looks to me as though the theories of Intelligent Design show promise.

Fr David Straut

Dear Azarius,

First, as those who know me could tell you, I am no proponent of the Theory of Evolution.

Second, to be fair to "evolutionists," I do not believe that the Theory of Evolution teaches (or has taught) that human beings descended from monkeys, but that humans and monkeys have a common ancestor.

Third, the Russian Monarch was never the Head (effective or otherwise) of either the Russian Orthodox Church in particular, or the Orthodox Church as a whole. His offhand remarks in the heat of a volatile political climate, influenced by a multitude of factors, do not constitute an Orthodox doctrinal pronouncement on the Theory of Evolution. I think you should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting such a thing.

Fourth, the suggestion that Communist Atheistic ideology forced down the throats of the unfortunate Russian students during the Seventy Years of the Bolshevist Oppression now influences the hierarchy of the Orthodox Church of Russia is offensive. Are you trying to bait the Orthodox during this first week of their Great Lent? Your silly example quoted by the ever-memorable Patriarch ALEXIS only proves the exact opposite of what you are alleging. He has no respect of biological evolutionism.

I think, Azarius, that you should apologise to the Orthodox Christians on this Forum for your remarks in this post.

Fr David Straut

I agree with Father David, Azarius.

Your tone and your remarks are definitely inflammatory and not in the spirit of charitable debate which characterizes this forum... NOT to mention, the spirit of Holy Lent which calls us to reflect and be more loving and less judgemental and critical of our neighbors, among many other things.

No further warning will be issued.

Alice, Moderator

Dear Fr Straut,

I will try to clear up some misunderstandings.

When I use the phrase "humans evolving from monkeys" its just shorthand since to use the full technical jargon (common Primate ancestors etc) would take a paragraph and obscure the real problems with Human Evolution (such as the human soul as an emergent phenomena).

Anyone can see that the thoughts of the last Tsar were not an official view of Russian Orthodoxy. However even his offhand remarks would not have been without influence. Nicholas II should have apologised to the Japanese for his racist remarks.

Re "the Russian Monarch was never the Head (effective or otherwise) of either the Russian Orthodox Church in particular".
Are you saying that Ivan Zuzek S.J. was wrong in making the following assertion? (pg 202 of Kormcaja Kniga - studies ...)

Re "He [Alexis II] has no respect of biological evolutionism."
And that was the point of my quote. I was trying to show that despite decades of Communist pushing of Human Evolution EVEN SO some (such as Alexis II) did not swallow it.

I am sorry that you may have missed the "even so".

Azarius,

Your tone continues to be inflammatory, argumentative and rude.

I take personal offense for the Holy Royal Passion bearing Martyr Tsar Nicholas II being brought into this. I venerate him as an intercessor in Heaven, and find your bringing him up irrelevant. We, even the saints and martyrs, are all sinners and among those sins, we can be prone to making disparaging and impulsive remarks about others...the extent of our repentance in our hearts at the time of our death is known only onto God.

One elderly monk outside his cell on Mt. Athos was asked by a pilgrim: "what do you do all day?". He replied "we fall and we get up, we fall and we get up."

This thread will be closed until reviewed by our Administrators.

Alice, Moderator

A very interesting contribution to this discussion has been made by the lay Greek Orthodox Theologian, Dr Constantine Cavarnos. I am always edified by his writings. He wrote a monograph entitled Biological Evolutionism. I have a copy of it and I hope to reread it soon (though how soon I cannot say since, after all, we are in the midst of Great Lent!). But I found the text online, for those who are interested:

Biological Evolutionism by Dr Constantine Cavarnos [scribd.com]

Fr David Straut

Dear Father David:

Thank you. This is just the sort of thing I was hoping that those of you who are more knowledgeable would be able to direct me to.

In Christ:
Einar