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Dec 29th, 2019
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Thanks, Secret Squirrel, for posting this link. The 'clarification/apology' is because these priests sent a letter of joy to several clergy and others around the Archdiocese, publicly thanking the Holy Synod for releasing them from the 'captivity' of the last four years (i.e. Bishop Mark) and finally allowing them to continue the brilliant work they were doing for the Archdiocese (e.g., holding only Sunday morning services). Metropolitan PHILIP evidently forced them to write an apology (it's quite a sincere apology, isn't it?).
The ironic thing is that their letter shows who, in fact, has been dividing the Antiochian Archdiocese. It is actually these priests and others like them who are dividing the Archdiocese. Why? Because they refuse to accept a white bishop. They refuse to accept a bishop who makes them follow regular Orthodox practice. Instead, they wish to continue in relative obscurity, spreading the Gospel to no one and making their people happy that they are not actually required to change their lives if they wish to be true Christians. And Antioch has rewarded this poor behavior.
I could not be happier that these snakes in the grass, these wolves in sheep's clothing, have been exposed. Forgive me for being so vocal; but this is true wickedness. To pretend that you are righteous and Orthodox, but to reject your bishop due to racial reasons; to continuously stab him in the back; to work behind his back to betray him; to write a letter to rub his nose in the dung right after he has been slapped in the face; if this is not true wickedness, I don't know what is. The only unfortunate part is that Met PHILIP did not require them to post their original letter so everyone could see what the real problem is. However, people--or at least clergy--throughout the Archdiocese, will soon find out about their letter and it will make this new synodal decision look even worse.
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Byzantine Secret Service Member
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Dear Dn_PL, Thanks for the clarifications. Apparently something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark (no offense to any Danish viewers or posters). 
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This decision has nothing to do with the 'ecclesiology' of Antioch. I would agree, Antioch is not making up anything new or distinct. Rather what I think they're doing is waking people up to the Patriarchal structure of the church, and how in effect it can be a good deal more "Papal" than many care to acknowledge or admit.
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Thanks for the clarifications. Apparently something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark (no offense to any Danish viewers or posters). No problem as long as you don't start trash talking about Norway. Einar
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Thanks for the clarifications. Apparently something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark (no offense to any Danish viewers or posters). No problem as long as you don't start trash talking about Norway. Einar I agree with Einar
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And I third it! We have almost a forum here. We should start and organisation of Norwegian Catholics and have a reunion in Norway. Stephanos I
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and finally allowing them to continue the brilliant work they were doing for the Archdiocese (e.g., holding only Sunday morning services). Through the years, and for various reasons that I need not explain here, I've managed to slowly accumulate a list of websites of Orthodox parishes with frequent (4x a week) services, and the largest number is Antiochian.
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The ironic thing is that their letter shows who, in fact, has been dividing the Antiochian Archdiocese. It is actually these priests and others like them who are dividing the Archdiocese. Why? Because they refuse to accept a white bishop. They refuse to accept a bishop who makes them follow regular Orthodox practice. Instead, they wish to continue in relative obscurity, spreading the Gospel to no one and making their people happy that they are not actually required to change their lives if they wish to be true Christians. And Antioch has rewarded this poor behavior. I would assume there are two sides to the story. I have had the unfortunate experience of hearing in person from an Antiochian convert priest, highly disparaging remarks about the Arab members of his own diocese. The blame I don't think can all fall on side; and I think some leeway could be given to people whose on ancestors brought the church here that the converts now make their home in.
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I would assume there are two sides to the story. I have had the unfortunate experience of hearing in person from an Antiochian convert priest, highly disparaging remarks about the Arab members of his own diocese. The blame I don't think can all fall on side; and I think some leeway could be given to people whose on ancestors brought the church here that the converts now make their home in. Very wise words I think. Events like this are not usually so black & white. One can read self-righteous comments of over zealous converts condemning cradle Orthodox who are not "Orthodox" enough for their tastes. Surely we can find a middle ground.
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Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!! Does anyone else see the glaring problem here? In Christ and in His Church there are no "ancestors" and no "converts," just as there is no male or female, no Jew or Greek, etc. Once we are incoporated into the Body of Christ, we are all equal. Remember the Parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard. Those who come late to the game receive the same reward as those who have labored for the duration of their lives. I guess this is sensitive to me because we left one parish in this area where we were "carpetbaggers" because we moved into the area and didn't have our great-grandparents help lay the cornerstone. And I grew up in a parish where people were categorized by their parents' religious status and the palce where they were being educated. I'm a "third class" Catholic because my parents were in a mixed marriage and we went to the public school. For us there was no hope we'd ever be good Catholics or even make it to Heaven.  If anyone wonders why our parishes are empty of young people, take a good look at situations like this. The young won't stand for this type of thing. They vote with their feet. BOB
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For purposes of clarification, my comments were not directed towards "cradle" Orthodox, "Arab" priests, or any group in general. My comments were specifically directed towards the four priests who wrote the letter and were forced to apologize. My comments were also directed at the few other priests who are like them.
I am not a black and white person, generally. However, this is a black and white issue. I have spoken to other cradle, Arab priets who equally condemn the prior actions and letter of these four priests. Furthermore, consider how bad it is when you write a letter SUPPORTING a controversial decision of a Metropolitan who cares for you and for whom you care and that same person that you were SUPPORTING forces you to write a letter of apology and publishes it on the national website.
The issue with these four priests is black and white, and I am aware of the history behind their letter--they did not support MARK from day one, before he had any opportunity to make a mistake or sin against them. My comments were directed towards them specifically, and by extension to anyone who supports them or is like them. This is BY FAR, a minority of cradle, Arabic priests in the Antiochian Archdiocese. They are clearly on the fringe of the Archdiocese and even most of their brother priests who are also cradle and Arabic do not support them.
There is no excuse for their actions, nor for their letter. It is entirely deserving of condemnation and I am glad that Met PHILIP made them publicly repent, even though most people are entirely confused about what the apology refers to or what they do or do not support.
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Here is the original letter written by the four priests who were forced to apologize on antiochian.org. A Statement of the Decision of the Holy Synod of Antioch Concerning the Role of Bishops
The clergy and laity of the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America
received with greater excitement and with much gratitude the decision
regarding the Amending of Articles concerning Bishops according to
the By-Laws of the Patriarchate of Antioch. It affirmed once and for
all that the Archdiocese is united under one leader who becomes again
the point of reference of all bishops, priests, deacons, and the
laity of this God protected Archdiocese. The Metropolitan is the
hierarch who defines the responsibilities of the bishops and the
place where they should serve. After four years of captivity, our
church in North America will regain its direction under the mandate
of our Metropolitan.
We salute His Beatitude Patriarch IGNATIUS IV and the members of the
Holy Synod for issuing this historic decision on February 24, 2009.
We pray that, as things take their normal and natural order, we will
experience and enjoy the unity of the Antiochian Orthodox Church in
North America, under the spiritual leadership of our Primate. Under
this wise decision, the relationship between our Archdiocese and the
Mother Church will reflect harmony and cooperation and appreciate our
mission in North America. At the same time, it will help our
hierarchs and brethren in the Mother Church witness the labor of love
in the vineyard of our Lord.
The clergy and laity of the Antiochian Orthodox Church in the Midwest
Region and, in particular, in the Greater Detroit Area, offer our
thanks to God for this gift as we prepare to enter into the Lenten
Journey. We pledge to work under our spiritual leader, His Eminence,
Metropolitan PHILIP, and pray that the Lord grant him many, many
years, that under his blessed leadership and vision, we will respond
to all challenges and proactively, lay the ground for a fruitful and
glorious future.
"Among the first be mindful, O Lord, of our Father and Metropolitan
PHILIP, whom do thou grant into thy holy churches in peace, safety,
honor, health and length of days and rightly dividing the word of thy truth."
On behalf of the Antiochian Orthodox Churches in the Greater Detroit Area,
St. George Church of Troy St. Mary of
Livonia St. Mary of Berkley
V. Rev. Fr. Joseph Antypas V. Rev. Fr. George
Shalhoub V. Rev. Fr. George Baalbaki
Rev. Fr. Ayman Kfouf
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Maybe using the word "ancestry" is the wrong choice. Being established or born in to something isn't a get out of jail card for bad practice. At the same time, there's a right way and a wrong way to encourage change. There's also a danger in pushing for people to change too quickly. I think the AOA is now dealing with a combination of those.
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Apparently someone worded something a little too quickly or brashly, that require these four priests to make this public clarification/apology. http://antiochian.org/node/18915Here is the original letter by the priests: [orthodoxchristianity.net]A Statement of the Decision of the Holy Synod of Antioch
Concerning the Role of Bishops
The clergy and laity of the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America received with greater excitement and with much gratitude the decision regarding the Amending of Articles concerning Bishops according to the By-Laws of the Patriarchate of Antioch. It affirmed once and for
all that the Archdiocese is united under one leader who becomes again the point of reference of all bishops, priests, deacons, and the laity of this God protected Archdiocese. The Metropolitan is the hierarch who defines the responsibilities of the bishops and the place where they should serve. After four years of captivity, our church in North America will regain its direction under the mandate of our Metropolitan.
We salute His Beatitude Patriarch IGNATIUS IV and the members of the Holy Synod for issuing this historic decision on February 24, 2009.
We pray that, as things take their normal and natural order, we will experience and enjoy the unity of the Antiochian Orthodox Church in North America, under the spiritual leadership of our Primate. Under this wise decision, the relationship between our Archdiocese and the Mother Church will reflect harmony and cooperation and appreciate our
mission in North America. At the same time, it will help our
hierarchs and brethren in the Mother Church witness the labor of love in the vineyard of our Lord.
The clergy and laity of the Antiochian Orthodox Church in the Midwest Region and, in particular, in the Greater Detroit Area, offer our thanks to God for this gift as we prepare to enter into the Lenten Journey. We pledge to work under our spiritual leader, His Eminence, Metropolitan PHILIP, and pray that the Lord grant him many, many years, that under his blessed leadership and vision, we will respond to all challenges and proactively, lay the ground for a fruitful and
glorious future.
"Among the first be mindful, O Lord, of our Father and Metropolitan PHILIP, whom do thou grant into thy holy churches in peace, safety, honor, health and length of days and rightly dividing the word of thy truth."
On behalf of the Antiochian Orthodox Churches in the Greater Detroit Area,
St. George Church of Troy St. Mary of
Livonia St. Mary of Berkley
V. Rev. Fr. Joseph Antypas V. Rev. Fr. George
Shalhoub V. Rev. Fr. George Baalbaki
Rev. Fr. Ayman Kfouf The reference to 4 years of captivity seems quite clear.
Last edited by Irish Melkite; 03/07/09 10:52 PM. Reason: convert link to hyperlink
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Let me just add that the whole convert/cradle thing will be passe" soon. What will they call my kids of which 2 are cradle?
I don't think your time of conversion matters much. I can't find one book in the new testament written by a cradle.
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