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Yes Fr David. I read my post in the cool of the following morning and realised what I had written regarding Great Lent. What has occured that there has been this watering down of the Fasting guidelines on such a scale?

Which reminds me of the story I heard growing up in Michigan, about the French Canadians in the Upper Peninsula: they insisted that muskrats were acceptable fare on Fridays because they were seafood. I mean, they live in the water, doncha know.

You've heard the one about "Bob the Baptist"?

Bob the Baptist grilled a huge steak every Friday evening at dinner time. His Catholic neighbors (in the time when every Friday was an abstinance day) went crazy with the smell of the delicious aroma wafting through the air. So they went to their priest to complain. The priest went to talk to Bob and convinced him to become a Catholic. Taking Bob into church, the priest sprinkled him with holy water and said, "You were born a Baptist, you were raised a Baptist, and now you're a Catholic."

The following Friday Bob's neighbors were horrified to smell the aroma of steak coming from Bob's backyard. They went to the priest who hurried down to Bob's place. In the backyard he found Bob sprinkling the steak with holy water and saying, "You was born a steer, you was raised a steer, now you a fish."

CHUCKLE!!! CHUCKLE!!!

Very, very cute! Thank you dear Bob!

Ahem.

That would be the French Canadians who were from lower MI... and Lenten muskrat dinners are still found in the parishes of down-river Detroit. Most notably, St. Joseph's in Erie, MI (on the state line with Toledo, OH), the fourth oldest parish in the Archdiocese.

And yes, muskrat IS delicious.

John,

You yourself have noted that your first interests in fasting were when you were a Catholic involved in a certain movement where fasting has gained a great deal of adherence...

Still other movements exist where the same is true.

So even if fasting is not as prescribed in modern Catholic praxis by the hierarchy, it is still just as much out there in many places and in different fashions.

Sadly, for a goodly number of Catholics worldwide, hunger or subsistence consumption is the norm of their lives. Not for nothing, but I have met priests from Africa who note that people in their homelands were fasting - without choice - long before they were Catholic. And now in their Catholic faith, many find meaning in this hardship and difficulty.

Some semi-related thoughts on the matter of fasting...

* A woman at my parish who is a great reader of spiritual material has quoted an author she likes (the name escapes me) who points out that "fasting is like a fine garment - it is tailored to the individual, and not one-siz-fits-all."

* It is worth noting that one could follow the letter of the ancient prescriptions to the "T" and still enjoy lavish and rich meals that are as opulent or more oppulent than any "feast" that could be had when the fast regulations were put into place. Soy cheese, textured-soy meat replacement, margarine for butter, as well as shrimp, crab, and lobster would all fit within the realm of the allowable. Daily, on my way to work, I pass a much-acclaimed vegan restaruant that is well-rated by critics, and much enjoyed by folks who are not vegans... simply because the food is so darned good. Were I to spend the Great Fast dining there nightly, at the end of 40 days I could boast having kept the fast strictly... Or could I?

* This year I am on medication that has the side effect of being an all-too-effective appetite suppressant. I feel great, do not feel sick, have a good deal of energy... And can go a day without eating and hardly notice. Long work hours, good coffee, and a work environment where I walk the equivalent of several miles a shift... if I am not careful I could lose far too much weight. I have gone vegetarian for the GF, but as the receptors in my brain forget to tell me that I am even hungry, I can precious little afford to cut out some of the fats and proteins in the (usually one) meal I do eat. Many days the one slice of pizza I do remember to eat (and sometimes FORCE myself to eat) is IT. I need the cheese on it, I need the heavy whipping cream in my coffee.

* The standards of Byzantine Fasting pre-date modern convienances and luxuries (or even disposable income as we know it today) when food - as often as not - was THE luxury for some when it was even an option. In pre-modern times, eating anything save some basic staples like simple bread was a treat for many... To not eat meat during the fast seasons was essentially (in pre-refrigeration times) to commit to not enjoying the sumptuous meal of supping on the meat of an animal that you butchered perhaps even that morning...

* (Orthodox theologian Olivier Clément in his book "On Human Being: Spiritual Anthropology" also points out)that refraining from meat was also a call to refrain and cease from the shedding of any blood. For a modern man to eat meat, it is not required that he spill blood by his hands and eat what he can before tossing what he can't refrigerate to the dogs. Not nearly so bloody or decadent. I have no idea when the sausage in my freezer was butchered, and when I do eat some it, I will not be in a position where I must gorge myself on all that I can, lest it be wasted as I have no way to save it. It is not nearly so time intensive and far more cost effective. As of right now, in my freezer I have about 10 pounds of sausage which I bought on sale - and with a coupon - for about one hour's worth of my daily wages. That particular product was cheaper than some veggies and fruits are by the pound, when I go to cook some, I will only cook what I need and will not be committing to either throwing some out, or having a feast and I did not butcher the pig!

* In addition to the spiritual benefits of self-denial of such treats and luxuries as meat and wine, a concurrent benefit was the opportunity to offer the alms that might have been spent on the "luxury foods"

* Food for thought on fasting: What meals do we think our forebearers in the Faith might more easily recognize today as analagous to their own spirit of the fast? Meals that are simple, cheap, and don't demand time or expect waste or indicate a level of decadence? A can of soup that costs less than a dollar and 90 seconds in the microwave that might include some meat or dairy but was cheap, will not be wasted, allows one to donate some money and spend time elsewhere... a boiled egg from the fridge that you spent >30 minutes boiling one or two dozen at once earlier in the week (frequently on sale where I live for $1 for a dozen equal >9¢ for an egg!)... Some Ramen noodles which might have some trace amount of a meat product for 20¢ or less for a package augmented with some spiritual reading, maybe some volunteer work or an extra monetary commitment to a charity, your parish, or maybe some monastics or para-monastics, or maybe unplugging your TV or computer for 40 days...

or... Spaghetti Marinara at the Olive Garden with margarine on your breadsticks and a beer (which is not wine!) maybe coming home to a high-sugar vegan dessert or candy and 40 days of staying on top of the latest in prime time TV...

This is is an extreme example, of course, but I think this illustrates why I personally make effort to NOT pay any attention as to what my neighbor is or is not eating.

Dear Simple,

You sound defensive and needn't be. None of us should be judging what our brother does or doesn't do.

If anyone does, then he is breaking the fast, no matter how 'to the letter' he follows it.

It can be a bit expensive to fast in this country, which is kind of ironic...you are right in that meat is perhaps the cheapest food here besides legumes (beans). Fruits and veggies are somewhat expensive and I can attest to the fact that preparing balanced veggie dishes is time consuming.

This being only the second year that I am attempting the true fast (with oil--no one I know abstains from that), and I will say that it does alter the way you feel and makes you feel in a special penitential way, and adds a bit of a gnawing factor to the stomach...I have easily fasted from meat products in the past, but not having dairy is very, very difficult.

Alice

SS:

I think that if one is truly in the "spirit" of the Fast, one does not go looking for substitutes tht look and taste like the ones not on the list. Soy-based meats and dairy seem to really stretch the envelope.

On a news item some months ago, a Greek Orthodox monk from Mount Athos explained the monastic diet. He said that it was basically the peasants' diet of 50 years ago and more. People didn't eat a lot of these proscribed foods because they simply couldn't afford them. So the Fast can have a character of being in solidarity with the poorest among us in the world--those who may only get one meal a day and for whom meat and dairy are such luxuries that they don't see them all year. A parish in Haiti that my own parish supports is something like that. When we first began the program of support that we have, they fed the children once a day and the adults often ate every other day. And the concoction that they showed us pictures of, well . . .

In Christ,

BOB

ALICE:

Wouldn't that work if the neighbors had had their Orthodox priest convince Bob to become Orthodox?

"You was born a fish, you was raised a fish, now you a zucchini."

BOB--who doesn't mean to offend his Orthodox brethren

I think it's stretching the envelope to claim that soy-based substitutes actually taste like meat.

Ryan

I've never tried them for that reason. I would think that they would taste horrible.

I have had tofu prepared by a little old Chinese lady which did have the texture of meat but was really really spicy! It wasn't supposed to taste like meat so it tasted like spicy tofu!

Morningstar Chix Patties are really good and filling. I even eat them sometimes when not fasting. They do kind of taste like chicken cutlets.

Monasteries use milk and dairy substitutes like creamers for coffee. One elder even told us that soy cheese tastes good!

Orthodox are known to order soy milk in their Starbuck's coffee too.

Even while eating these 'substitutes' (which they really aren't), trust me, they aren't that good, they just make certain situations more palatable, and my stomach right now is telling me that this fast is not fun....

It is so not fun, that the occasional dark chocolate or oreo (the originals are vegan) cookie makes it easier to continue.



Before I did the complete fast, I used to think that all the Greek Lenten honey desserts which were traditionally made with oil and no eggs were out of 'the spirit'. I used to be sort of critical of it (definitely a sin)..but I now understand that some variety, even of the sweet kind, is quite necessary for the success of fasting the whole 47 days.

Yes, the fast is basically a Mediterranean diet that poor people ate year round...

Alice

Ryan:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I had to laugh when I read your post because I had the opportunity once to have a soy-based meat meal while doing prison ministry in a federal facility. They served this big plate of rice--enough for about five people--with this mound of brown strips in brown gravy on top. It looked like meat and had a taste like nothing I'd ever tried to eat before--or since. Believe me, I could fast without wanting to go down that path. (And the inmates thought that this was a special dinner!! Enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.)

BOB

Does anyone remember De Lawd's opening line in Green Pastures?

Fr. Serge