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From Luke's Gospel:
20:34-38

[34] Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. [35] But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, [36] and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. [37] But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' [38] He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."



Does anyone know how this is compatible with the view that marriage is eternal? Isn't Christ saying that marriage is only for this life?

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Who says that marriage is eternal? As a Catholic we are taught that marriage ends with the death of the spouse.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Who says that marriage is eternal? As a Catholic we are taught that marriage ends with the death of the spouse.

Dr. Eric,

I believe that many Orthodox theologians teach that marriage is eternal. Of course this contradicts numerous passages in Scripture; whereas the Catholic view (in this case) doesn't. Indeed, St. Paul even uses the concept of a marriage ending in death as an analogy for explaining our death to the law and freedom in Christ. Here is Romans 7:1-2

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband."

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This is an issue that has been taken up a lot in recent years.

As was posted by Hieromonk Maximos in the Anastasis Dialogue [hrmonline.org]:

Quote
The Priestly Pugilist has commented on my article in America magazine of last year. Welcome comments, and even the criticisms I agree with...my treatment of marriage was too cursory, but that's the problem with working to a word limit.

Still, it begs a question which, since I can't see a way of adding comments on that blog, I'll post here. What exactly is the patristic warrant for the notion that, in Orthodox theology, there marriage is "eternal." It is a notion that is tossed out so casually in so many places (remember, it turned up recently in that statement from Europe on contemporary moral questions). But where exactly is the evidence that this notion satisfies the classic test of Tradition, "believed always and by all?"

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Archimandrite Lucien Maalouf, in his book "Byzantine melkite thinking", says that in the Melkite Church believes the relations a couple acquire through marriage aren't dissolve after death.

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In the Roman Church, Father Cantalamessa seems to hold that all earthly marriages are transformed; the bond remains and is transformed in Heaven.

Father Cantalamessa on Marriage in Heaven [catholiconline.org]

The biblical passage seems to me to mean that once you die, you are no longer able to be married (marriage only happens on Earth, not in Heaven).

However, it is Sacred Tradition that determines Sacred Scripture. I wonder if any Fathers of the Church speak about Eternal Marriage.

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Originally Posted by Laka Ya Rabb
In the Roman Church, Father Cantalamessa seems to hold that all earthly marriages are transformed; the bond remains and is transformed in Heaven.

Father Cantalamessa on Marriage in Heaven [catholiconline.org]

The biblical passage seems to me to mean that once you die, you are no longer able to be married (marriage only happens on Earth, not in Heaven).

However, it is Sacred Tradition that determines Sacred Scripture. I wonder if any Fathers of the Church speak about Eternal Marriage.

Personally, I think that the context of the passage is indeed saying that marriage is for this life; not the next. In other words, I think it is implied in Jesus' words that the woman who was married several times will be no one's wife in heaven. I do agree that Scripture should be interpreted in light of the Sacred Tradition, but we need to be careful. If one can show that an idea that theologians claim is traditional conflicts with Scripture, then we should go with Scripture. At least that is my view. I believe that a close reading of both the bible and the fathers shows that we do hold to a primacy of Scripture so to speak.

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Quote
Personally, I think that the context of the passage is indeed saying that marriage is for this life; not the next.

I would actually read it the way Laka Ya Rabb does. I believe, as stated in the exchange of rings, that an eternal bond of love and devotion is created. Certainly transformed in the next stage of our lives. Fr. Meyendorff's book on marriage might be a good resource to look at this more deeply. link [books.google.com].

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[quote=Laka Ya Rabb]In the Roman Church, Father Cantalamessa seems to hold that all earthly marriages are transformed; the bond remains and is transformed in Heaven.

[url=http://catholiconline.org/featured/headline.php?ID=3793]Father Cantalamessa on Marriage in Heaven[/url]

The biblical passage seems to me to mean that once you die, you are no longer able to be married (marriage only happens on Earth, not in Heaven).

However, it is Sacred Tradition that determines Sacred Scripture. I wonder if any Fathers of the Church speak about Eternal Marriage. [/quote]

The Fathers and canons talk of remarriage after the death of spouse as polygamy.

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Father Cantalamessa (what a wonderful name for a priest: "Sing the Mass!") quotes from the liturgy of the dead: "Life is transformed, not taken away." This beautiful text is also used by the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) to express the "Christian vision of death" (CCC 1012):

Quote
Tuis enim fidelibus, Domine, vita mutatur, non tollitur, et, dissoluta terrestris huius incolatus domo, æterna in cælis habitatio comparatur.
(Lord, for your faithful people life is changed, not ended [not taken away]. When the body of our earthly dwelling lies in death we gain an everlasting dwelling place in heaven.)
I think what Father Cantalamessa says is that marriage and human relationships as we know them on earth end at death. However, for Christians, life does not end with physical death, and all that was good and true in our lives will be transformed and be part of eternal life in heaven. Therefore, the relationship between husband and wife will continue too, but it will be transformed.

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IAlmisry,

I have read several places where the Fathers have spoken against remarriage. I believe the Shepherd of Hermas says this.

I have a book called Early Christian Fathers. It's a collection of Early writings such as Martyrdom of Polycarp, Letters from St. Ignatius, etc. I definitely remember some of the writings speaking against any remarriage.

However, the use of Oikonomia in the Church, though present in the Early Church, became more definitive for some issues. One, I presume is marriage itself. Allowing a second marriage (whether after a divorce or death of a spouse) is treated the same way in the Orthodox Church, I believe.


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I encourage you to re-read closely. Of course, I have bolded some points that I find to be relevant.

Quote
On this occasion I would like to treat a theme that is of definite interest not only to widows and widowers but also to all those who are married, especially during this month in which we remember the dead. Does the death of a husband or wife, which brings about the legal end of a marriage, also bring with it the total end of communion between the two persons? Does something of that bond which so strongly united two persons on earth remain in heaven, or will all be forgotten once we have crossed the threshold into eternal life?

One day, some Sadducees presented Jesus with the unlikely case of a woman who was successively the wife of seven brothers, asking him whose wife she would be after the resurrection. Jesus answered: "When they rise from the dead they will neither marry nor be given in marriage but will be like angels in heaven" (Mark 12:25).

Interpreting this saying of Jesus wrongly, some have claimed that marriage will have no follow-up in heaven. But with his reply Jesus is rejecting the caricature the Sadducees presented of heaven, as if it were going to be a simple continuation of the earthly relationship of the spouses. Jesus does not exclude the possibility that they might rediscover in God the bond that united them on earth.

According to this vision, marriage does not come to a complete end at death but is transfigured, spiritualized, freed from the limits that mark life on earth, as also the ties between parents and children or between friends will not be forgotten. In a preface for the dead the liturgy proclaims: "Life is transformed, not taken away." Even marriage, which is part of life, will be transfigured, not nullified.

But what about those who have had a negative experience of earthly marriage, an experience of misunderstanding and suffering? Should not this idea that the marital bond will not break at death be for them, rather than a consolation, a reason for fear? No, for in the passage from time to eternity the good remains and evil falls away. The love that united them, perhaps for only a brief time, remains; defects, misunderstandings, suffering that they inflicted on each other, will fall away.

Indeed, this very suffering, accepted with faith, will be transformed into glory. Many spouses will experience true love for each other only when they will be reunited "in God," and with this love there will be the joy and fullness of the union that they did not know on earth. In God all will be understood, all will be excused, all will be forgiven.

Some will ask of course about those who have been legitimately married to different people, widowers and widows who have remarried. (This was the case presented to Jesus of the seven brothers who successively had the same woman as their wife.) Even for them we must repeat the same thing: That which was truly love and self-surrender between each of the husbands or wives, being objectively a good coming from God, will not be dissolved. In heaven there will not be rivalry in love or jealousy. These things do not belong to true love but to the intrinsic limits of the creature.

It seems to me that the article relays that any bond made before God in Marriage will not be broken by death, but rather be transformed; perfected.

Of course, this thread is about what the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, not Father Cantalamessa. grin

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Originally Posted by Laka Ya Rabb
I encourage you to re-read closely. Of course, I have bolded some points that I find to be relevant.

Quote
On this occasion I would like to treat a theme that is of definite interest not only to widows and widowers but also to all those who are married, especially during this month in which we remember the dead. Does the death of a husband or wife, which brings about the legal end of a marriage, also bring with it the total end of communion between the two persons? Does something of that bond which so strongly united two persons on earth remain in heaven, or will all be forgotten once we have crossed the threshold into eternal life?

One day, some Sadducees presented Jesus with the unlikely case of a woman who was successively the wife of seven brothers, asking him whose wife she would be after the resurrection. Jesus answered: "When they rise from the dead they will neither marry nor be given in marriage but will be like angels in heaven" (Mark 12:25).

Interpreting this saying of Jesus wrongly, some have claimed that marriage will have no follow-up in heaven. But with his reply Jesus is rejecting the caricature the Sadducees presented of heaven, as if it were going to be a simple continuation of the earthly relationship of the spouses. Jesus does not exclude the possibility that they might rediscover in God the bond that united them on earth.

According to this vision, marriage does not come to a complete end at death but is transfigured, spiritualized, freed from the limits that mark life on earth, as also the ties between parents and children or between friends will not be forgotten. In a preface for the dead the liturgy proclaims: "Life is transformed, not taken away." Even marriage, which is part of life, will be transfigured, not nullified.

But what about those who have had a negative experience of earthly marriage, an experience of misunderstanding and suffering? Should not this idea that the marital bond will not break at death be for them, rather than a consolation, a reason for fear? No, for in the passage from time to eternity the good remains and evil falls away. The love that united them, perhaps for only a brief time, remains; defects, misunderstandings, suffering that they inflicted on each other, will fall away.

Indeed, this very suffering, accepted with faith, will be transformed into glory. Many spouses will experience true love for each other only when they will be reunited "in God," and with this love there will be the joy and fullness of the union that they did not know on earth. In God all will be understood, all will be excused, all will be forgiven.

Some will ask of course about those who have been legitimately married to different people, widowers and widows who have remarried. (This was the case presented to Jesus of the seven brothers who successively had the same woman as their wife.) Even for them we must repeat the same thing: That which was truly love and self-surrender between each of the husbands or wives, being objectively a good coming from God, will not be dissolved. In heaven there will not be rivalry in love or jealousy. These things do not belong to true love but to the intrinsic limits of the creature.

It seems to me that the article relays that any bond made before God in Marriage will not be broken by death, but rather be transformed; perfected.

Of course, this thread is about what the Church Fathers have to say on the matter, not Father Cantalamessa. grin

لك يا رب

It seems to me that we agree on the interpretation of Father Cantalamessa, at least wink


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Fr. Thomas Loya discussed this in a post last year.

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/287111/Re:%20Eternal%20Marriage#Post287111

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/287111/Re:%20Eternal%20Marriage#Post287111

Last edited by danman916; 03/10/09 09:56 AM. Reason: tried to make it a hyper-link

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