www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Excommunications After Raped 9-Year-Old Has An Abortion

I lurk much more than I post and was surprised this hasn't been brought up yet. My apologies if this is in the wrong forum or if this has already been posted and I missed it...

RIO DE JANEIRO — A Roman Catholic archbishop says the abortion of twins carried by a 9-year-old girl who allegedly was raped by her stepfather means excommunication for the girl's mother and her doctors.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,505183,00.html

No doubt that this is a horrible and heartbreaking story. While I support the sanctity of life, it seems that life would have potentially been lost either way here. This is exactly the type of case that proponents of abortion sometimes use to justify their stance; however, my intent is not to debate the evils of abortion. As members of this forum, I believe we are all hold the same opinion.

I guess my question to the forum is, do you agree with the excommunications? Is no circumstance extenuating enough to perhaps justify not taking this action (excommunication)?

What if this was your child?

My apologies to the forum in advance if this topic offends.

In Christ,
Gabriel

This thread is going to cause controversy, but talking about these things is not offensive. My hope is that under the circumstances, the Church will not make reconciliation too difficult. It would seem to me that the simple solution would be for the mother and doctors to go to confession. I think that under these severe circumstances, the Church can recognize that "full freedom" may not have been existent and if the doctors and mother sincerely believed that the girl's life was in danger (and this seems to be a reasonable supposition), then it is not clear to me that there was any sin at all (or at least there may not have been any significant level of moral culpability). The Church doesn't need to approve of what was done, but I hope that the Church will show mercy.

Oh, and I think that this is a perfect example of a case where the exercise of "oikonomia" is necessary.

Joe

There are no exceptions!
Stephanos I

This is a very sad case indeed. Without further comment on this particular story I offer prayers for this child and those involved in having to make such a decision.

As far as the Catholic Church is concerned abortion does mean excommunication. I recall seeing a group of men and women at the "March for life" this past January carrying signs which publicly stated their remorse for having aborted their own children. Christ (and His church) forgives even the greatest of sins if one is honestly willing to repent and turn from their sin. Saul/Paul comes to mind here.

I have to wonder why we don't have some penalty for this disgusting father figure in this poor child's home. Of course, if the man is that far gone, it's a sure bet he isn't moved by ecclesiastical penalties. I wonder what the civil authorities will do with him. I know that child molesters fare poorly in prisons in the U.S.

May God have mercy on this poor child.

BOB

I have heard that in prison they have a special punishment for the likes of him.

I think the most important thing here is to pray for all those involved in this incident, including the bishop so God will reveal to him the right course of action in this disturbing matter.

I don't pretend to know what this right course of action is in this case. I only know that abortion is always murder, but by excommunicating these pour souls what do you really accomplish?

I am on the fence.

In the Catholic Church, if a person incurs excommunication for an offense like abortion, then what needs to happen for that excommunication to be removed? Would going to confession do the trick?

I would think it very unfortunate if the mother and doctors could only be restored after some arduous process, while the rapist could simply go to confession and wala!! he is back in good standing.

And by the way, I'm not saying that what the mother and doctors did was right. Although, I will also say that I am reluctant to pass any judgment since I don't know all of the circumstances. I just hope that the excommunicated folks are not received with coldness by the Bishop and his clergy.

Joe

This from EWTN:

NOTE WELL To actually incur the excommunication one must know that it is an excommunicable offense at the time of the abortion. Canon 1323 provides that the following do not incur a sanction, those who are not yet 16, are unaware of a law, do not advert to it or are in error about its scope, were forced or had an unforeseeable accident, acted out of grave fear, or who lacked the use of reason (except culpably, as by drunkenness). Thus a woman forced by an abusive husband to have an abortion would not incur an excommunication, for instance, whereas someone culpably under the influence of drugs or alcohol would (canon 1325).

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Abortio2.htm

Do you noticee that having "acted out of grave fear" mitigates the punishment? Given the severe circumstances of this case, I think it is highly probable that the family and hte physicians acted under duress. My hope is that for the sake of the Church (as well as the family) the Bishop will issue another statement explaining this, so that the Church doesn't come off as being callous and with the wrong priorities.

By the way, is straightforward murder an excommunicable offense? What about rape? If not, then why is abortion an excommunicable offense?

And by excommunicable, I mean an offense that requires one to be re-instated by the Bishop, rather than being reconciled through confession.

Joe

Actually, I think abortion is the only case in which an excommunication can be lifted by the parish priest. I believe I heard that on Catholic radio.

Dr Eric you are correct.
There are some sins that incur automatic excommunication just by the fact of their being committed. Abortion is one of them.
Stephanos I

This from the excellent blog of canon lawyer Edward N. Philips [canonlaw.info]:


Source:
Brazilian abortion excommunication case [canonlaw.info]

Thanks for all the replies!

I was hoping that it just wasn't a matter of:


Thanks for this Joe:


Hear! Hear!

There is some sanity left in the world...

Gabriel

Hi,

I hope it is clear that the excommunicated individuals here are the mother of the girl and the doctor(s) who actually performed the abortion, not the 9-year old girl herself.

Now, in my opinion, the penalty should still stand, unless it can be proven that a twin pregnancy for a 9-year old was clearly and objectively life-threatening. I am no medical expert, but I am pretty sure the rest of a 9-year old girl's body is not quite ready for motherhood, even if her ovaries already are.

So, now what?

Let me pretend to be the local bishop:

Well, I think it is extremely important to provide medical and psychological care to all involved. It is also important to prosecute the crime committed and make sure the step-father is no longer a threat to this family or any other.

All people involved also need pastoral care (yes, even the perpetrator). If I were in charge (and God knows I should not), I would immediately impose a canonical penalty of equal magnitude on the perpetrator. That is, because his actions caused these other persons to be excommunicated, he should also face excommunication.

From that point on, the pastoral process for each person would require distinct discernment.

Again, if I was in charge (and for this part, I honestly believe I would not be so bad), all I would require from the mother to lift her excommunication is an acknowledgement that what she did was wrong and a promise that she would not make a public statement to the contrary (that is, that she would not use her daughter's tragedy to advocate in favor of abortion).

I would not be as interested in following up the case of the doctors(s) very closely (I am their bishop, not their pastor), I would leave that to the ordinary canonical processes in place.

Now, for the perpetrator, I would be tempted to make sure my penitentiaries are instructed not to lift that excommunication until at least one year of psychological therapy AND spiritual direction, but reality would probably dictate otherwise: If this guy is on the run, the Church will probably not hear from him in a very long time, otherwise, if he is caught, his imprisonment is almost equivalent to a violent death sentence at the hands of his fellow inmates, so I would make sure he is offered the chance to be reconciled as he is being incarcerated.

As for the girl, I would spare no effort or expense to make sure the Church has ONLY a positive impact in her personal healing process. Anybody in the Church getting in the way of this would get a 5-star tour of the business end of my episcopal authority.

Maybe next time you pray you'll thank God Memo is not your bishop. That's fine. I like being an incentive to pray.

Shalom,
Memo

I would suggest a course in moral theology.
No one was implying that the young girl was responsible.
She is a minor and the abortion most likely was enforced upon her, so on her part there was no crime.
Stephanos I
PS And when I said there were no exceptions, there are none.
Abortion is awalys a grave evil.