www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Dar al Islam

We know this to be true. What are we going to do about it?

Carson, if when you say "we know this to be true" you are referring to you and me, you're 100% correct, but unfortunately most people do NOT know this to be true.

Subdeacon,

You do make a good point.

CDL

CDL and Subdeacon Borislav:

We who have studied the "religion of peace" all know its true colors. Unfortunately, we have been fed a lot of baloney from the mass media that wants to bring alternatives to Christianity in its move to neutralize the roots of our culture. What they don't realize is that Islam is no more a supporter of liberal, secular societies than many of us. But they will learn to their dismay after it's too late to reverse.

Another unfortunate thing is that our schools are indoctrinating our young people with the idea that they need to be tolerant of this new addition to "diversity." It's interesting that we hear stories of students required to dress up like Arab Muslims and recite Muslim prayers in exercises used to drive home this point.

BOB

Yes, Islam is evil. But even practitioners of evil religions have the right to practice them. So what is the answer? Take away their human rights, because they are intent on taking away ours? I don't see how that's any kind of an answer.

Alexis

[quote=Logos - Alexis]Yes, Islam is evil. But even practitioners of evil religions have the right to practice them. So what is the answer? Take away their human rights, because they are intent on taking away ours? I don't see how that's any kind of an answer.

Alexis [/quote]
If the practitioners of the death cult called Islam are determined to use their "human rights" to put my wife and daughter in a burqa, than yeah, take away their "human rights".

L-A:

I think you miss the point here. No one is talking about taking away their "basic human rights" to practice any religion or none. The point of the thread is awakening people to the truth of this religion: to alert people to the lies used to lull them into an uncritical acceptance ot it.

In my other note, I object to the requirements in some high school and middle school curriculums that call for the adoption of Muslim dress and prayers to "sensitize" our young people in public schools. What this is is indoctrination, pure and simple. If the requirement was to adopt Christian practices for a split second, there would be a firestorm in the secular media and among the liberal elites, the atheists, and other assorted groups.

The truth about Islam is protrayed in the YouTube video. But have you seen it in the media lately if at all? France has their share of rioting of the type described, but no one covers that. Britain has its share but no one covers that. There is ethnic cleansing of Christians throughout the Middle East but there is precious little coverage of that. But put a Danish cartoon depicting Mohammed in the paper and watch the world go indignant.

No one in our Churches has really preached that with the Transfiguration the end came to the line of Patriarchs and Prophets. In other words, Mohammed may be a prophet, but a prophet of whom.

BOB

Bob,

I'm totally with ya! But the narrator of the video seemed to me to be saying that the way out of this is not to give Muslims the right to practice their religion. That's just the way I saw it. But I am in agreement that Islam often takes this route when it reaches a certain percentage of the population.

Alexis

Alexis:

I think where the West has a problem in allowing the Moslems to practice their religion is precisely in the differences between our cultures. We have a generally accepted separation of church and state system that has worked well for us for many centuries. They don't. With them it's all one piece--a seamless garment, if you will.

The problem becomes when we allow them to have ghettos where they have a separate civil administration stemming from their religion which does not recognize the broader culture in which they live. And then the constant push for greater influence of their values over the national culture to the point where they snuff out the culture in which they live in favor of an Islamic culture that is alien.

It's almost as if you have the situation with a species of bird that puts its eggs in the nest of another species and eventually those other birds raise the intruders' offspring in place of their own.

BOB

Bob,

Yes, I am adamantly opposed to allowing Islamic groups their own forms of governments within the boundaries of the State. Remember when we read about this happening in the UK a year or two ago? Truly horrific; they'll be regretting that one for a long, long time.

Alexis

"Islam is evil"?
No, Wahhabism is evil. There are all sorts of Islamic practice, some quite humane. We are talking about the religion of a billion people. Most are like people anywhere, wanting only to live their lives, care for their children, worship God. Wahhabism is an inhumane, even inhuman, fanactism. It has the hold it has because of Saudi money, which has funded mosques and massadahs around the world to teach its intolerant doctrines. Yes, that't right, our "allies"- and Bush business partners- the Saudis. For what it's worth, Wahhabi fanaticism does not sit well with people when it comes to power. Humans cannot endure such narrow religion; look at the way Calvinism led directly to the reaction of universalism in our own history...

Actually the difference between Saudi style Wahhabism and Iranian style Shia Islam is rather small. Fact of the matter is, and those of us who have studied the Qu'ran to some degree know that peaceful Muslims have little apology for their peaceful behavior in their so called Holy Book.

Think about this. Their prophet was a warlord who enslaved, robbed, personally beheaded, mutilated and had people stoned to death. Further he took his sons wife for himself, there he was a practitioner of incest. Finally to top it all off he married a 6 year old girl named Aisha with whom he consummated his marriage when she was 8 or 9. Considering the fact that all these things are not secret, but are found rather easily in the Qu'ran and the Hadiths and also considering the fact that Mohamad is held up as perfect example for men to follow for all eternity it is rather clear where the violence inherent in Islam comes from.... So yeah, the religion is evil and the fact that not all practitioners of Islam are evil proves nothing. I am sure you will not disagree with the fact that Mormonism is itself a pretty evil and corrupt cult.... At the same time there are hundreds of thousands of decent people who happen to be mormon.

Dear CDL,

Thank you for posting this.

nun Alexandra

Subdeacon Borislav- Yes, and the Jewish patriarchs left a lot to be desired morally as well, and were warriors. What you say about Aisha is disputed by Muslims, as you no doubt know.
Most of what Christians object to in Islam can be found in our own Old Testament, and despite the fact that our own Founder was not a violent man, Christians still justify total war (discuss Hiroshima here some time if you doubt me). In fact, Christians were killing one another in the not too distant past.

All I am saying is that religions evolve, and there are elements of truth in Islam.

And my Church (I am Byzantine Catholic, and so in union with Rome) does not teach that any religion is "evil", aside from Satanism. Rather, each has elements of truth, mixed with error. We seek what we have in common, and I would say there is more in common with Islam than with Judaism. The Talmud teaches that Mary was a harlot, Islam that she was a Virgin, most honorable. The Talmud teaches that Christ was a false prophet; Islam that he was a true prophet and will return to judge the world.

Posting out of context videos serves only to inflame fear. Think of what an anti-Christian could do; posting the rantings of Bishop Williamson, or those nutcase Baptists who carry signs saying "God Hates Fags" and haunt the funerals of American servicemen, saying that they died because of homosexuality in America. I could go on; they could make a "case" that Christianity is a religion of fear and hate, could they not?

I'm repeating here a post that I made on the other currently active thread on Islam.

A caution to all posters in threads involving potentially hot and divisive topics, such as this one. Generalizations are dangerous, inflammatory, and certain to offend at least some and perhaps many of your brethren - avoid them.

No one is asking that you stifle or censor your opinions, but broad-brush characterization of any specific group - whether a political party, religious body, or ethnic group - is unwise, unlikely to be supportable, and not likely to contribute to meaningful discussion, dialogue, or debate.

Many years,

Neil