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Dear Cmoore,

If you have access to the book, The Lives of the Pillars of Orthodoxy [trans. Buena Vista, CO 1990], it provides a blow by blow of the break down in communication in 1054. Although it is an Orthodox produced translation, the sisters make a great effort to remain scholarly in the transmission of history.

nun Alexandra

I am going to vist St. Photius shrine today. Maybe this book and another suggested will be there. I will look. I am very excited about going. My pastor is telling people about my research and others want to come along on the journey. He told them I would be giving them a tour. I have mentioned the group here and even though I can see that many don't agree with each other. I do see a sort of unity for preserving your faith. I look forward to leaning much more here. I have noticed certain things like the way I hold my fingers when blessing myself. I need to check but I do believe it is of the Eastern Rite and I do it with out ever thinking about how I am holding my hand/fingers. It comes naturally. Very interesting as I research and try to remain nuetral to write the best paper possible. I may share it here. It will depend on how it comes toghther and I hope that all will be proud as I walk this road during Lent with the Lord.

"I hear I need to cover my head as a female?"

Probably only if you go to a parish of a really conservative jurisdiction.

And I urge you to cover your head in your Latin Rite parish!

Alexis

Only the concervatives that still desire to remain the church prior to Vatican II wear head coverings. Why would you suggest a head covering in my home parish? I have been attending the Latin Rite Mass since I was a child and rarely did I see headcoverings.

I am struggling with the varying degrees of information I am receiveing through my research. I can tell almost immediatly if it is Orthodox or Catholic. I will have to be in a neutral position to write this paper presenting both sides. Would I be correct if I said the The Orthodox Church claims the Eastern Rite Catholics as a branch of their church and the Latin Rite consider them a branch of their church. I see similarities in both and just wondering if I make that statement would anyone find it offensive? Not trying to offend anyone by the way. Just looking to learn. I will be calling the priest from my Eastern Rite Parish up North too.

nun Alexandra,

The book you mentioned do you have an ISBN for it?
I could ask at St. Photius Shrine. I was told they have a library upstairs by a Luthern clerk.(she was very helpful) I asked if that would be available to me? She said she needed to check. I hope they let me because I am sure it would be in thier library. The other clerk was also helpful. He is a convert to Orthodoxy. We had a great conversation. He too would like to see unity between the churches.

Dear Cmoore,

The ISBN is 0-944359-04-3

prayers
nun Alexandra

From the morning until the evening, be with and in Christ, serve Lord Jesus Christ, heart be set at fire in prayer of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is all, All.

Otherwise, I think that there are various mindsets, and, even if I am Orthodox, I cannot tell you be this or that, and who could understand an American mindset? Be with Christ, Sister.

Yes, I believe that you might cover your head, it would be nice and fine.

Alexis, if I am to take your comment seriously about a woman covering her head at mass, it sounds like you do not agree with many of the reforms of John XXIII of blessed memory and Paul VI. I for one pray that their reforms, which the current pontiff and his immediate predecessor attempted to curb, do not falter, but continue and become the norm!

JohnZ,

Unfortunately, the reforms in question were very much a mixed bag. Are you really saying that, for example, the omission of nearly all the reverences (signs of the cross, kisses of the altar, bows, genuflections, etc.) from the rubrics of the Missal of 1970 was a good idea, and that it wouldn't be bad for the East to follow suit?

I'm not a great fan of the TLM, but I will say that it made it almost impossible to have a man-centered liturgy, the likes of which are all too common in the RCC since V-II.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Marian, I am confused. I am not sure I follow what you are saying. Peace of the Lord be with you too.

Unfortunately, the reforms in question were very much a mixed bag. Are you really saying that, for example, the omission of nearly all the reverences (signs of the cross, kisses of the altar, bows, genuflections, etc.) from the rubrics of the Missal of 1970 was a good idea, and that it wouldn't be bad for the East to follow suit?
Peace,
Deacon Richard[/quote]




I'm not sure I know how to use this quote feature. I guess I will see once I hit post. I want you to know Deacon Richard that we do all of those things that you said were omitted. Maybe I am reading your post wrong. And from my research I am finding that the doctrine wasn't the problem and that it was a power issue back in 800-1054+ I am still researching and gathering information. I am praying and studying in the Lords presence asking for guidance in this paper. No one seems to be answering the question I am waiting to hear a responce on. No one wants to say Yay or Nay. Eastern Rite Catholics belong to which church? I think both claim them as a part of their church. Would I be correct in saying that? It is a feeling I am getting and as I remember correctly I think we even had Orthodox Divine Liturgy at my church growing up. I was confused about a different Easter date. I am still confused but it is slowly coming together. It is a lot to take in for someone that didn't really care for lets say over 30 years.
I appreciate all the input everyone is sharing.

CMoore

I'm confused - please bear with me for a moment.

in your first post on this thread you said

From this I gather that you were probably originally attending an Eastern Catholic Church.

Now in your latest post you said


What you are remembering is that you had the Divine Liturgy . This , the Divine Liturgy of our Father among the saints John Chrysostom , is the very same Liturgy used in both Eastern Catholic Churchs and the Orthodox Church

You also need to remember that some Eastern Catholic Churches can and do use the Julian Calendar [ often referred to as the Old Calendar ] and others use the Gregorian Calendar [ often referred to as the New Calendar ]

Life in the East can be very confusing at times

Yes the Eastern Rite Church we attended was far away and my Mom didn't drive. Once my Father was killed we couldn't get there anymore. I did chose to get married in that church even though I wasn't going to Mass but I did it in honor of my father who I never really got to know. My older brother was very involved in the church. I can ask him some of the questions I am posting here too. Saint John Chrysostom is the Church Father he told me to look at in detail. I am getting there. All my weekly religion classes were in the Latin rite local church that my Mom belonged to and it was 12 years of which I like to say were against my will. I am not here to argue but to learn. If it sounds confusing it is because I am confused and the Lord has lead me in this direction through a few different papers and experience that I have had.

You also need to remember that some Eastern Catholic Churches can and do use the Julian Calendar [ often referred to as the Old Calendar ] and others use the Gregorian Calendar [ often referred to as the New Calendar ]
Would a church use both if they are few and far between to serve both Orthodox and Catholic? I can ask my brother if this happened but I just talked to him the other day and I was curious now. He is working and traveling so I don't want to bother him.


My mother followed the rule of raising the children in the Eastern Rite (my fathers church) because she was a good Catholic. We believe she is a saint. Anyway she did her best. My father was only 44 when he was murdered. I did go back to the church inbetwen and join the community when my brother was driving and we all joined the Ukrainian dance group. That was a lot of fun by the way. I have only been back at church for 3-4 years now and looking to understand my roots. Does that make more sence? I really am trying to understand but also find conflicting stories and feelings that spark questions that may sound confusing. Thanks for bearing with me and trying to help me work through my search for understanding.

Oh and I am enrolled in a program through the diocese called Ministry Formation. The class I am in now is called Church History and I am studying the Fathers of the Church. I have been allowed to write about Photius/St. Photius to learn about the Great Schism. I can chenge my mind and pick someone else but if I start here and move forward I think understanding why we have 2 churches will make sence to me. I like to put myself in others shoes so visiting the churches and asking questions here help me to understand better.
I am very excited about this research and my Pastor is telling people I will be guiding the rest of my church since they are interested in learning more too. I was surprised to hear that but Okay. I better know what I am talking about and understand it then!

What you are remembering is that you had the Divine Liturgy . This , the Divine Liturgy of our Father among the saints John Chrysostom , is the very same Liturgy used in both Eastern Catholic Churchs and the Orthodox Church



I get it. That must have been it. Too early LOL That makes sence!