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In the Byzantine tradition, deacons are referred to as "Father Deacon", monks are even commonly called "Father" even if they aren't ordained priests.

and priest can be married but once a priest can not remarry if widowed. Correct. Is that the same for Deacons and Monks?
Deacons in the Latin Rite can be married but can not remarry if widowed. Are there sub Deacons too?

In both the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches, priests may not marry, but a married man may be ordained a priest. He may not remarry if widowed (a few, extremely rare exceptions have been allowed in instances when a priest was widowed and left with very young children in his care).

Monks, whether hieromonks (monks who have been ordained to the priesthood) or not, may not be married. Widowed men may be accepted as monks and widowed priests may be tonsured as monks.

Deacons may be married prior to their ordination to the diaconate. If widowed, they may not remarry.

The subdiaconate includes both those who are intending to move on to the diaconate or priesthood and those who do not intend to progress further in Holy Orders. Some of the Oriental Catholic and Orthodox Churches in particular have substantial numbers of subdeacons.

Many years,

Neil

Are there women that feel left out? Meaning is there talk about why women can't be priests in the Eastern Rite? We hear it from some women. I have an Aunt that felt this way but I think women can have many imprortant roles in the church but becoming a priest is not one of them.


Oh and I want to know a little more about Thecla or Thekla. She is the patron saint for women that work in the Orthodox church? Does she have any place in the Eastern Rite Catholic church? She is a statue in the 5th position at the Basilica in Rome. The reputed apostle of Paul. She was in my last paper on conversion so I was just wondering how popular she is in the Eastern Church. I am looking into a few links that brought me here and this is a big one.

While I'm sure that there are Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and Catholic women who believe that there should be ordination of female priests, the issue is not anywhere near as common as discussed in the Latin Church. There has been discussion of the role of female deacons in some of the Orthodox Churches and if you do a search, you should find some threads on the topic.


St Thekla or Thecla is commemorated by the priest in the preparation of the prothesis, when he prays, while cutting the fifth particle:


On September 24, we observe The Memory of the Holy Protomartyr and Equal-to-the-Apostles, Thecla, who received word of the faith from the Apostle Paul at Iconiumin Lycaonia and at Antioch in Pisidia and who suffered martyrdom in Seleucia of Isauria.

Many years,

Neil

From the Prologue of Ohrid:

CMoore,

What Michael and Neil have said are true; once ordained to the diaconate one cannot marry, barring any highly unusual circumstances.

With your attendance at Divine Liturgies, have you yet noticed a difference in spirituality? Although my mother was a cradle Roman Catholic I didn't attend my first Roman Mass until I was around 17 (shortly after the Vatican II changes). The differences were surprising to me. I'm not sure how to describe them without prejudice. The eastern spirituality is more like the Western mystics' experiences, but without the gifts of physical visitations .... St Francis, St John of the Cross, Padre Pio. I suppose that is why we call our liturgical services "mystical" and call the Sacraments "Mysteries."

The West, forgive me for stereotyping, seems to require theological treatises for everything...to try their best to explain it with human terms. It's impossible....God's awesome graces are inexplicable. He can't be confined to Church laws...not that the East doesn't fall into the same shortcoming much too often.

As has been said, "The West tries to define what God IS; the East defines what He is NOT.... invisible, incomprehensible, unknowable, using the "apophatic" version of defining.

Also, this is my opinion with which many will disagree, but the Western spirituality which most closely resemble the East are the cloistered orders such as the Carmelites, and of Catholic Charismatics. Maybe it is the trust in the Holy Spirit that brings about the similarities.

The first generation RC immigrants from the Slavic lands also had a similar spirituality, that is an unfailing trust in God's wisdom and innocent ignorance of formal "theology." When I travelled to Eastern Europe the similarities were noticeable even in the Roman Catholic areas.

I don't think this falls too neatly into your paper's subject of the Great Schism, but it does address the difficulty of reunionification of East and West.

Fr. Deacon Paul

Cmoore

I have been reading your threads with interest and wonder if this wee book might help

a sort of 101 course in the Eastern Churches [aquinasandmore.com]

and I hope the Author will excuse my description of it as a 'sort of ' - it is a store of knowledge

Fr. Deacon Paul

I experience that spirituality that you describe that include visions, guidance by the Holy Spirit through various sources including others and occassion I have heard a voice. At first I thought it was my own conscience until the voice spoke (The Holy Spirit) in 3rd person using the words "I gave you" or "I will" I have to say I jumped out of bed that night and my life has never been the same since. Words can not describe some of the feelings and experiences. My Pastors and various people will tell you in the LR that this happens to everyone. It can if the person is open to it and willing to give their life to serve the Lord. I have not said "No" yet. There are many times I have thought about it but how could I?

So I have not been back to a Divine Liturgy in the Eastern Church since my wedding (20 yrs ago) and I will be going very soon. Eastern Rite churches are further away and I teach religion to 3rd graders I have to go when we have no class. I was thinking of Palm sunday. Growing up we would have "pussy willows" is what we called them growing up I know it is a slang term. What is the liturgical name for the branch given on Palm Sunday or Passion Sunday?

I guess we do try and say what God is but they are simplistic like "God is Good" and "God is Love" so many people are hurting and can't feel His love. I think deep inside the RC church you find the spirituality that you are speaking of but not everyone has found this treasure. It is there! I am proof of it. Charismatics are also an example of the spirituality you speak of. I was at a healing Mass where people were slain in the spirit. This priest has the Charism of healing and my daughter just burst out in tears (she is 9) for no reason as soon as the priest annointed her. I know Cahtolics that were amoung the 500 plus people present that thought it was fake. She said people were faking it. We went to dinner with the priests after and if you told me I would be going to dinner with a priest in my life time I would have told you "Your nuts!"
So the church is so big that those treasures are hidden. I have shared my story at various events and they call it witnessing. I thought it was unusual but have been told it is not and that instead people don't say "Yes" out of fear or that they are unaware of His presence in their life. This makes sence to me!
If you told me that all this would have happened to me in my search for motivation (faith) just to raise my children in the church because I promised to do that at baptisim,I don't know if I would have asked for the motivation. I will post my paper at some point or maybe share it through e-mail. I shared it with a LR site and they posted it. I was honored. The problem is people want to know why they don't have the same experiences or they think you are a NUT. I understand becasue a few years ago I would have thought the same thing.

Neil,

I have an idea as to what prothesis is but could you give me some details. It is part of the preparation for communion? St.
Thekla is mentioned in the preparation of communion in ECC and OC? It is an important key so thanks for sharing.

Cmoore

I'm not Neil but I think this may help you

Preparation of the Gifts [saintelias.com]


You may well find most questions answered on the St Elias Site

The Holy Spirit has been very good to you with His Gifts! While God may not speak as vividly to others as He did to you, its true that He offers wondrous graces and gifts but all too often we reject them. The Virgin Mary, the Theotokos, sets a perfect example for us starting with the Annunciation. She could have rejected God's offer of Motherhood of the Divine, but she accepted His Will.

The Gift which your 9 year old daughter received is the Gift of Tears, or Tears of Joy, or Tears of repentance. In the East it is spoken of greatly, especially related to repentance, which is really a healing. It is a wonderful experience, you can't explain it; its not sorrow, but reflective of the mystical joy of being infused with knowledge of God's love!

Yes, pussy willows is the correct name for the branches which we receive on Palm Sunday. Palms were not available in the peasant areas of Eastern Europe so the Church used the earliest budding branches available.

During Lent our Eastern Churches celebrate the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts (commonly called Presanctified Liturgy) on Wednesdays and Fridays. Most parishes have them at around 7 p.m.. It is a Vespers Service with Communion. The Eucharist is consecrated on the preceding Sunday and reserved for the services.

On the Saturday after the Annunciation (March 28 this year) our churches celebrate the Akathist to the Mother of God. This is a prayer service that maybe you could attend. Pope John Paul opened the Marian Year in 1987 celebrating this service (if I remember correctly.) It has been related to as the "Eastern Rosary." The following Saturday is "Lazarus Saturday" which is celebrated with a Divine Liturgy. If you tell us what part of Florida you're from I'm sure many will oblige to find the nearest Eastern church for you. Some may not be listed in the Yellow Pages.

Fr. Deacon Paul

I found a Ukrainian Catholic Chruch in Apopka and the one in Ormond Beach would be closer but I can't find a website for theirs. I would prefer a church vs another type of building. This is because I will bring my children and they will remember it and it will make more sence if there is an actual church vs a school building. I know there are some in Jacksonville. I am in Flagler County.

Fr. Deacon Paul

I knew it was called the gift of tears. I have experienced that myself and I had no idea why I was weeping at the time. I have been studying for over 3 years non stop so I know quite a bit now but History and the past is where I am now. I received the gift of faith. I had none before and now my faith is so strong that I would die for my faith. Not that I want to but if asked to do so I would. There is a much better life awaiting us. I had a glimpse of that too.
Anyway sometimes in sharing people can be pushed away so I would share privatly if asked to do so amoung the faithful and those that desire to hear such a story.