www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Newly-created Hellenicized Ruthenian Rubrics, WHEN WILL IT STOP!!

If you say so.

U-C

Anybody have a YouTube clip link from St. Elias Ukrainian Church (Brampton) showing either their veneration of the Holy Cross and/or their version of "Preterp'ivyj Za Nas" hymn w/prostrations???

U-C

Found one...



U-C

I sympathize greatly with the loss of any tradition, whether it be local, regional, eparchial, or ecclesial-wide.

For the faithful in the aisles, the pews, or the open nave, venerable and familiar acts of reverence that they regularly, routinely, or even seasonally perform are often more memorable and ingrained than rubrics that they observe performed by the presbyter, deacons, or servers but in which they might not ordinarily directly participate other than crossing themselves, offering responsorial prayers, or similarly being involved at a level somewhere between active and passive.

So, it is not surprising that someone might feel deprived to discover the sudden usurpation of an opportunity to perform a comfortable, familiar, and reverential act that they remember as a part of their religious heritage from the time that they first began to consciously participate in worship. It cannot but be the more exasperating to find that such praxis - heretobefore presumed universal - is significantly less so than believed - that all manner of folk, from various sister ecclesia are either unfamiliar with it or perceive it as having a different form, styling, timing, etc. That should tell one something - simply, that it is not the norm, or is less the norm than one believed.

Does that make its continued observance wrong? No, not unless the need to maintain the praxis becomes an end in itself - one that risks transcending charity and that places a degree of import on doing so that might be better reserved for the penultimate worship experience - the Divine Liturgy.

This thread is taking on an unhealthy life. Those whose parishes do not adhere to a formula that some aparently deem an absolute essential for the preservation of received Ruthenian Rescension are being made to feel 'less Ruthenian'.

The praxis of other Churches, including some which are more Parents than Sisters, are being essentially denigrated as less observant, less reverent, less 'something' that isn't really definable. Comments have come very close to suggesting that those who are not both cradle AND aware of, in touch with, and observant of this praxis are interlopers - in a Church (one of many among our Communions) that can ill afford to relegate those who love it - but aren't "with us" on this - to standing on the outside looking in.

In case anyone has missed it - none (read that word again) of our Churches, Catholic or Orthodox, Eastern or Oriental, has an inexhaustible source of cradle-raised faithful who can assure its continued existence for time immemorial. We have talked, endlessly, about evangelization, about being welcoming, and - in case anyone has missed it - the consensus has appeared to be that we NEED those who love the East, even if they require lessons to make pirohi or fatayah or moussaka.

While I appreciate fervor, I don't appreciate unbridled zealotry. It is not a pretty emotion at any time and less so at this Season. This thread has not, almost from inception, been as much about the beauty or reverence of praxis as it has been about the perceived unmitigated gall, outright ignorance, or lack of caring for and reverence toward religious heritage of those who don't adhere to it.

That must end and it must end now!

Many years,

Neil

Not to worry, as my local ACROD parish WILL INDEED VENERATE THE HOLY CROSS TWICE this coming Sunday, Daj Bozhe shchastja, indeed!

U-C

I thought that Neil's post was very well done, but I must confess - I completely misread the issue.

I thought that a second veneration had been ADDED not taken away, which was partly the reason I found your reaction so puzzling:

"Why would he be so upset that a second veneration was added?"

Now I see - there was no second veneration. Got it. ("Dripping water breaks the rock," as the German's say...)

That said, I think Neil offers some good counsel on balancing zeal with charity.

God bless!

No Miller--I meant what I said, >>>not all Slavic Orthodox churches have tetrapods, stationary or moveable.<<<

Ss. Cyril and Methodius OCA Church in Terryville, CT, the town where I grew up, replaced their original church in the 1970's with a new larger church modelled on those from Sub-Carpathian Rus. The original church, was in the western Ukraine basilican style, and did indeed have a tetrapod. The new church did and still does not have one. They do place an analogion in the center of the church on feast days with the icon of the feast, but there is no tetrapod.

Ung-Certez’s whole post here is rather uncharitable.

He makes accusations that there are new rubrics en force in the "Sui Juris Byzantine Metropolitan Church in America" regarding the veneration of the Cross but without providing any sort of evidence that this is true. I can understand that he is upset that he and the rest of the worshippers were not invited to individually venerate the Cross at the end of the Divine Liturgy. But why would he immediately go to an internet forum to post accusations? It seems to me that the first step here is to speak with the priest who celebrated that Divine Liturgy. Did he not invite the parishioners to venerate the Cross at the end of the Divine Liturgy because he simply forgot? Or because he assumed they would approach and venerate as they had done in previous years? Or did he not do so because of some directive from the Metropolitan? If so, what instructions was he given? Did he actually tell the faithul that they should not approach individually to venerate? There is a Christian obligation not to accuse falsely and Ung-Certez has neglected the basic steps of asking the proper questions to the priest who could give him the proper answers!

I hereby invite Ung-Certez to pick up the phone and call the priest in question to ask these questions, and to report back in his next post.

The only legitimate post here that Ung-Certez could have made (should he have not been able to ask the priest directly) is to simply note what happened and ask about it. Making an accusation was entirely inappropriate and Ung-Certez really should withdraw it and apologize unless he can back up his claims. Given the great spiritual instability and harm caused by the Ruthenian liturgical reform I can understand the hurt and lack of trust, but even that does not relieve an individual from being accurate and fair.

John--if you look above and on page 5 of this thread, I already asked U-C if he asked the priest or other parishioners why no 2nd (or third--if they venerated on the way to communion) veneration. No response.

John K