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I have previously expressed my perplexity at the Byzantine practice of singing Vespers in the morning during Lent. I am aware that some have criticized this practice as one of the things that need to be reformed in the Eastern rites. Anyway, here is an interesting piece on the historic "Tridentine" practice of also singing Vespers before lunch! This puts the whole thing in a different perspective: http://ordorecitandi.blogspot.com/2009/02/time-is-running-out-for-vespers.htmlVespers today marks the start of the proper Lenten Office. Anciently Lent began on the first Sunday with Ash Wednesday and the following three days added later. The Office on Ash Wednesday and the following days is really that of Septuagesima, with the same hymns, with the addition of the ferial preces.
Today, and for the rest of Lent with the exception of Sundays, Vespers are not sung at the usual time of late afternoon but sung before lunchtime. A rubric in the Spring volume of the Breviary, before first Vespers of the first Sunday of Lent states:
On this day, and thereafter until Holy Saturday, except on Sundays, Vespers are said before the principal meal at midday, even on Feasts.
This practice, much criticised by the reformers of the twentieth century Liturgical Movement, was popularly associated with the practice of fasting. However, a contrary view, and one I share, would be that the practice represents a symbolic inversion of time as a consequnce of the Fall, with the restoration of 'normality' with the victory of the LORD at Easter. The practice is not confined to the Roman (or other Western rites) as it is found in the East too. In the Slav-Byzantine typicon Vespers in the morning are prescribed not only in Lent but on many other penitential days too. Well... weren't the generations of yesteryear so much wiser than we are? The more I learn about the liturgy, the more I am convinced that our generation is simply not fit to introduce any changes into the traditional rites.
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As it happens several Orthodox Local Churches and jurisdictions permit and practice the serving of Vespers and Divine Liturgy in the evening.
Fr. Serge
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This practice, much criticised by the reformers of the twentieth century Liturgical Movement, was popularly associated with the practice of fasting. However, a contrary view, and one I share, would be that the practice represents a symbolic inversion of time as a consequnce of the Fall, with the restoration of 'normality' with the victory of the LORD at Easter. The practice is not confined to the Roman (or other Western rites) as it is found in the East too. In the Slav-Byzantine typicon Vespers in the morning are prescribed not only in Lent but on many other penitential days too. Why is it that Reformers always destroy? The Byzantine Holy Week services are incredibly beautiful. The Byzantine Catholic Church near us dropped the Twelve Gospels but we still do it and our church is full. I say keep the old way.
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The Twelve Gospels service, usually sung on Holy Thursday night, is originally an all-night (literally) service; in Jerusalem it is still done in the form of a Procession, headed by the Patriarch, around the Via Dolorosa. It has been immensely popular for centuries.
The Western paraliturgical devotion known as the "Way of the Cross" is an imitation of this service.
"Getting rid" of the Twelve Gospels is an utterly unpastoral thing to do. I cannot imagine why anyone would wish to - if someone doesn't like the service, nobody will send the police to drag him to church for it. Both in traditional chant systems (Byzantine, znammeny, etc) and in composed musical settings the singing is rich and beautiful - and again, the people love it.
In Greece it is particularly rich, with a dramatic procession with the large standing Cross; people fill the church to overflowing for this part of the service.
Fr. Serge
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Strasti is often one of the best attended services during the entire Lenten and Holy Week cycle in Ukrainian parishes. There is no compelling pastoral reason for its elimination.
That consideration does often leave a pastoral necessity for the vesperal Liturgy for Great and Holy Thursday to be celebrated earlier in the day in order for Strasti to take place Great and Holy Thursday evening, and Royal Hours on Great and Holy Friday morning.
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I'm not sure I understand Diak's point. For decades I've been happily serving Vespers and Liturgy of Saint Basil on Holy Thursday in the early evening, and the 12 Gospels later in the evening. There don't seem to have been any problems.
Fr. Serge
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I'm not sure I understand Diak's point. For decades I've been happily serving Vespers and Liturgy of Saint Basil on Holy Thursday in the early evening, and the 12 Gospels later in the evening. There don't seem to have been any problems.
Fr. Serge I take my Kamilavka off to you, Fr Serge. After serving the Vesperal Liturgy for Holy Thursday morning, which, with the Proskomedia and Hours, takes me probably three and a half hours, I need the six hours of recuperation before serving the Matins of the Twelve Gospels on Holy Thursday evening, a service that definitely takes at least three and a half hours. One thing I'm sure of: very few of the parishioners with whom I am familiar would attend both services back to back. With warmest regards, Fr David Straut
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I'm not sure I understand Diak's point. For decades I've been happily serving Vespers and Liturgy of Saint Basil on Holy Thursday in the early evening, and the 12 Gospels later in the evening. There don't seem to have been any problems. ??? Many parishes, Greek Catholic and Orthodox, take the Vesperal Liturgy of Great and Holy Thursday earlier in the day, and have done so for a long time. I have rarely heard of the Holy Thursday Vesperal Liturgy in a Greek parish not being in the morning. The propriety of this has been a point of discussion for decades, but that is still a common practice not only amongst the Greeks, but in many Orthodox parishes. I have to admit the times I myself have assisted at the sequential celebration of Strasti beginning not long after the Vesperal Liturgy, the attendance at the Vesperal Liturgy was typically negligible (with everyone showing up, as predicted, for Strasti). Early afternoon is my preference (with a better attendance than the sequential celebration) and more appropriate than morning for a Vesperal celebration, although the morning celebration for the Vesperal Liturgy seems to prevail throughout much of the Greek Catholic and Orthodox world. Some clergy also have to assist in more than one place during Holy Week which throws another completely different set of pastoral considerations into the mix.
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The Twelve Gospels service, usually sung on Holy Thursday night, is originally an all-night (literally) service; in Jerusalem it is still done in the form of a Procession, headed by the Patriarch, around the Via Dolorosa. It has been immensely popular for centuries.
The Western paraliturgical devotion known as the "Way of the Cross" is an imitation of this service.
"Getting rid" of the Twelve Gospels is an utterly unpastoral thing to do. I cannot imagine why anyone would wish to - if someone doesn't like the service, nobody will send the police to drag him to church for it. Both in traditional chant systems (Byzantine, znammeny, etc) and in composed musical settings the singing is rich and beautiful - and again, the people love it.
In Greece it is particularly rich, with a dramatic procession with the large standing Cross; people fill the church to overflowing for this part of the service.
Fr. Serge Strasti (the Matins of Holy Friday) are not permitted to be celebrated on Holy Thursday evening in the Ruthenian Church of Pittsburgh. The Vesper Divine Liturgy is not permitted before 5 PM on that day. Some parishes moved Strasti to Good Friday morning but a lot dropped it altogether when no one came.
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Asian Pilgrim,
it is only during Great & Holy Week that we anticipate the services by half a day: i.e., Vespers early and Orthros in the evening.
Some jurisdictions bring the Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts earlier to allow the people to break their fast, but never before noon.
The monasteries in the Middle East usually chant Vespers somewhere between 2.30 pm and 4.30 pm, depending on the time of the year.
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