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Mar 25th, 2025
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Father David You said I just cannot see why people from a non-slavic background would feel it necessary or even appropriate to use a language that they have no understanding of to pray to God. It is a barrier to me anyway. Some of us have no option !
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Joined: Feb 2003
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I'm not at all Slavic, but I began attending the Ukrainian liturgy at church, because the English one was too early. Now I love it and prefer the Ukrainian liturgy over the English one hands down. A friend has been attending liturgy with me lately, and she already prefers the Ukrainian liturgy to the English one.
Nothing wrong with English, it's my first language and a beautiful one at that. I seriously doubt Shakespeare sounds better in Ukrainian, but with the DL, give me it in Ukrainian every time.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
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I'm not at all Slavic, but I began attending the Ukrainian liturgy at church, because the English one was too early. Now I love it and prefer the Ukrainian liturgy over the English one hands down. A friend has been attending liturgy with me lately, and she already prefers the Ukrainian liturgy to the English one.
Nothing wrong with English, it's my first language and a beautiful one at that. I seriously doubt Shakespeare sounds better in Ukrainian, but with the DL, give me it in Ukrainian every time. Please satisfy my curiosity. Are the English and Ukrainian Liturgies served in the same way? Both chanted? With choirs that are of the same competence? Both with incense? Of similar length? If not, we are comparing apples and oranges. In some Greek churches I've been in, the Gospel has been chanted beautifully in the Byzantine style in Koine Greek and then been followed by a recited English Gospel that was read in the Today's English Version much like you'd read a newspaper article at the breakfast table. Small wonder that a Greek woman I met once said that when she hears English in the services she feels like she wants to throw up! When you use kindergarten English translations and make an effort to make the performance of English services as banal as possible, you teach people that English is not a fit medium for the Liturgy of the Church. But we are staying from the topic... Fr David Straut
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Father David You said I just cannot see why people from a non-slavic background would feel it necessary or even appropriate to use a language that they have no understanding of to pray to God. It is a barrier to me anyway. Some of us have no option ! Yes, this is true. God bless you in your perseverance! Fr David
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Fr Straut
We typically have the same cantor for both liturgies, along with a few pretty good singers occasionally adding there voices to the English liturgy. I just prefer the way Ukrainian sounds in the liturgy.
During the week the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is in English only, and I do quite like that, but then maybe that's because I haven't heard it in Ukrainian.
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Dear Lawrence,
Different strokes for different folks.
Fr David
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Joined: Jan 2003
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I just cannot see why people from a non-slavic background would feel it necessary or even appropriate to use a language that they have no understanding of to pray to God. It is a barrier to me anyway. I was absolutely delighted to attend my first ROCOR Diocesan Conference a few days ago that was finally conducted in the English language: a language, as our Metropolitan said (God bless and keep him for many years!) everyone there understood. The same could not be said for Russian. It only took 90 years, but they finally realised that we are called the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia for a reason. Alleluia! (My apologies to our Latin brethren who can't say or hear that word during Lent!  ) Fr David Straut That is great news for you and for many others I am sure! I love so much about your particular jurisdiction, but the language can definitely be a barrier for those of us who are not Slavic. As for Greek, having just returned from compline, we and others were commenting how heavenly it is that for one of the first times in our lives we get to hear the service (cantor and all) in English, (despite our priest and cantor being Americans of Greek heritage)and get to FEEL and participate in the service completely with both mind and soul, without having to follow in a book...Ofcourse when I am in Greece I have no choice, but in the U.S. I should. The beautiful thing about my parish services is that everything about the services still remains very beautiful, and very Byzantine in feel-- except the language... Alice
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Dear Alice,
Your experience of Compline sounds wonderful. I too love Byzantine chant and liturgical practise. (It's what I had my formation in in Orthodoxy.) After a decade in the Russian Church I am also appreciating many things Russian (especially when they're in the English language.) The beauty of coming from a non-Orthodox background is that I feel no particular loyalty to the way "it's always been done." I feel like a bee who collects nectar from all the different types of flowers in the Garden of the Church.
Fr David
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I feel like a bee who collects nectar from all the different types of flowers in the Garden of the Church. That is so beautifully said!
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I'm not at all Slavic, but I began attending the Ukrainian liturgy at church, because the English one was too early. Now I love it and prefer the Ukrainian liturgy over the English one hands down. A friend has been attending liturgy with me lately, and she already prefers the Ukrainian liturgy to the English one.
Nothing wrong with English, it's my first language and a beautiful one at that. I seriously doubt Shakespeare sounds better in Ukrainian, but with the DL, give me it in Ukrainian every time. Please satisfy my curiosity. Are the English and Ukrainian Liturgies served in the same way? Both chanted? With choirs that are of the same competence? Both with incense? Of similar length? If not, we are comparing apples and oranges. In some Greek churches I've been in, the Gospel has been chanted beautifully in the Byzantine style in Koine Greek and then been followed by a recited English Gospel that was read in the Today's English Version much like you'd read a newspaper article at the breakfast table. Small wonder that a Greek woman I met once said that when she hears English in the services she feels like she wants to throw up! When you use kindergarten English translations and make an effort to make the performance of English services as banal as possible, you teach people that English is not a fit medium for the Liturgy of the Church. I think a lot has to do with the way the music is set in English. Our cantor has that new anthology. It is nice looking but he says the music is not as good as what we use now. The English just does not sound as if it is natural. Sometimes it is very awkward. But I'd be happy if we just kept with Slavonic. Until at least they get the music right.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Catholic Gyoza Member
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Catholic Gyoza Member
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Is that Bishop Edward Braxton of Belleville, Ill., and Archbishop Wilton Gregory of Atlanta? Yes, my astute friend, Archbishop Gregory used to be the ordinary of Belleville, IL. Bishop Braxton is the current ordinary and he used to be an auxiliary in St. Louis.
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