www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Liturgical Idiosyncrasies, Parish to Parish

Dear Friends,

The local Greek Orthodox parish here has some liturgical practices which I have encountered in no other Byzantine church I've ever attended, and therefore these practices have piqued my interest because of their apparent idiosyncratic nature. After attending Divine Liturgy there this morning, and having seen them every time I've attended, I've decided to ask whether or not these practices occur in any of your parishes, or in any parish of which you are aware.

1) The Our Father is said first in English by the entire congregation, and then in Greek by those who can speak it. Nothing strange there. Then however, Father nods to two Slavic guys who then say the Our Father in whatever Slavic tongue they speak (don't know which). Then he nods to a Romanian fellow, who does the same. Then he nods to another family, who does the same in their own native tongue. Is this a common practice in Orthodox churches?

2) The priest always gives his homily at the end of Liturgy, before the veneration of the Cross and the taking of antidoron. Is this a common place for the homily? I've never seen it placed here before.

Alexis

I have experienced the English, and then Greek, but not the other languages. It seems that this parish has different ethnic Orthodox represented in the congregation, and that is probably why the priest does that, and I think that is rather nice and inclusive.


Although this is not the traditional place for the homily, this is, generally, for some reason of which I am not sure, the place in the service that it is said in most Greek Orthodox churches in this country. Hope this helps!


Alice

Yes, Alice, it does help! I also find the Our Father practice rather nice. I guess there is no limit on how many languages the GOA allows to be used in a service (for example, just Greek and English)?

And because this is the only Orthodox parish in about a 60-70 mile radius, it is as you say, Alice, a home to Orthodox of many ethnic backgrounds as well as converts.

Alexis

I know that saying the Lord's Prayer in many languages is done at several GOA parishes in the Metropolis of the South. I've heard that Metropolitan Alexios is a fan of the practice.

Dave

Dear Alexis,

As Alice has said, this placement of the Homily at the end of the Liturgy is pretty usual for Greek churches. I would add that it is almost invariably the place for the Homily in Russian churches. Antiochian and OCA parishes are the Jurisdictions that ordinarily have the Homily in its original place after the Gospel.

Though I personally nearly always preach after the Gospel, I sometimes have to admit that those who wait to the end of the Liturgy have a certain point. The church is usually only half full at the Gospel, whereas there is a full house at the end of the Liturgy. If you want everyone to hear the sermon, preaching later works better.

Fr David Straut

I have experienced hearing the Lord's Prayer in both Greek and English in Greek Orthodox churches in the U.S.

I have also experienced the "Lord have mercy" in the Litany of Peace being said in English, Greek, Salvonic and Arabic: all in the same setting, at an OCA church with a mixed congregation.




I have experienced either way at Orthodox churches: either after the Gospel or at the end of the Liturgy. In my experience, the sermon after the Gospel is more common; but, that is just my own limited experience.

One time, I experienced both. The younger priest gave a sermon after the Gospel, and the older priest gave a sermon at the end of the Liturgy. After that, I was glad to have just one sermon per Liturgy !

-- John

Father David,

Yes, I can see your point about the church only being half full by the time the Gospel is read, but that's a whole other topic...!

Alexis

Hello all. Our Ukrainian parish usually has the sermon at the end of liturgy, but recently we have temporarily merged with an Antiochian parish and our sermons have been after the Gospel as of late.

Merged?

Our (OCA) services are entirely English, save for the triple kyries, which we alternate between Greek, Arabic, Slavonic, Romanian, and Swahili (how cool is that?), Swahili because we have African parishioners. The only things that are spoken, and not chanted or sung, are the homily and the Communion Prayer. So the Creed and the Lord's Prayer are both chanted.

The homily is always after the Gospel, except on Wednesday and Friday nights at Presanctified, when it comes at the end.

The Creed and the Our Father are both said, not chanted, at this Greek parish. Mostly everything else that is normally chanted is chanted.

Alexis

Yes that is the standard across the board in the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, so that the faithful can join in and recite them too rather than just be an audience to it.

Yes, Alice, I think that's totally legitimate.

Are there not chants with which the faithful would be familiar? For example, in Roman Catholicism, the Credo and the Pater Noster are set to familiar chants so the faithful can join right in, while still allowing the prayers to be chanted.

Alexis

Interestingly, at our (OCA) parish, nearly everyone in the congregation chants along with the choir, and without prompting from the priest (as I've heard reported from other parishes).

Yes. Actually quite an interesting study in Orthodox unity. We've been getting some press recently. The local Antiochian parish received an offer they couldn't refuse for their church building (which was just an old business office). They sold their building and have not yet started building their new building yet. In the mean time, our parish offered to let them worship with us. With the bishop's blessing, our priest is the lead priest one Sunday with our choir, and the Antiochian priest leads the service with their choir the next Sunday. Weekday services are usually served by the Antiochian priest.

It's interesting to merge the two styles of worship and two jurisdictions under one roof. Please pray for us.