www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography Monastery Icons

Deacon Daniel,

I cringe to imagine. If they are incorporated as a non-profit, the numbers should be available in some one of their annual filings - probably Missouri. Frankly, the thought of looking leaves me queasy. Their products are all over the place, in many Latin churches, as well as both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox ones, to say nothing of how many faithful unknowingly have them in their icon corners.

As someone pointed out in an earlier thread - not sure if it was here or at OC.net - the range of their available choices and the fact that one can get entire sets of icons in matched sizes at reasonable prices makes their offerings particularly attractive to many who are unaware of their history.

I'd hate to tell you how often I see them as a resource link for icons on parish websites - again, both EC and EO. I'd strongly encourage anyone who notices such to e-mail the pastor and bring the matter to his attention.

Many years,

Neil

Neil-
The Swami is not George Burke.
If you google image search "abbot george burke" you will find a photo of GB, bearded, and apparently in his (undated) "Coptic" phase.
Then if you go to the Kali Murga site, under the "library" thread, there is GB's testimony about his encounter with Kali. There is also a Monastery Icon of the Immaculate Heart, blasphemously, on the page, as well as one of the rare photos of the "monastic" community. George Burke is clearly the guy, now beardless, in front, and at the rear right is the obese "monk" who is clearly the newly dubbed Swami.
So here is the mystery: how many of the community went with the obese monk to become Hindu monastics? Or did he set up shop by himself? (There is no photo of a community on the ashram website). And where is George Burke? And what happened to Brother Simeon, the erstwhile iconographer? Is Monastery Icons presenting new images, or only selling the old ones? Enquiring minds want to know.
As I noted a couple of years ago, they are a shadowy group, hard to trace or track down, which is odd, seeing how their images are ubiquitous. I mean, it is a rare Byzantine Catholic or Orthodox church which does not have one or more of their images lurking somewhere on the premises.

Oops; make that "Kali Mandir"...

Dan,

On this, we have to disagree, I'm afraid. George is Swami Nirmalananda Giri (one of several Swami Nirmalanandas - the original reposed in the late 90s, I believe, and had quite a following, several of whom have taken up his name, with another tagged on at the end.) George, his vegetarian diet and writings aside, has always been a big boy. (There is, I believe, at least one other swami connected with the ashram as well.)

Although one can only guess at George's size during his Coptic phase, a bloggist who spent some time with him and another of his monks (during, I think, one of the many "transition" periods) describes the 2 as surely weighing 600 lbs between them.

I tried to find what you describe as the Kali Murga site, because I recollect the photo you mention, but I wasn't able to track it down - do you have the link?

By the way, the mystery to which I alluded in an earlier post - 'who is "William" Burke?' - is answered. In searching for other material related to the Abbott/Swami, I came across a reference that I forgotten to the fact that William was George's Christian name before entry into the religious life, such as his is and has been.


Good questions - other than the where is. Back before I realized that Nirmalananda was such an ubiquitous name, I read of the first such's death and thought George had reposed. His continuing literary output soon dissuaded me of that prospect.


Keep in mind that George himself is a reasonably accomplished iconic artist - I decline to call him an iconographer - having apprenticed at the role during his days as a novice monk at Holy Transfiguration - that would have been in his Russian phase, which I believe immediately preceded his Greek phase, which was succeeded (IIRC) by his Liberal Catholic phase and, subsequently his Gnostic phase.

I'm actually uncertain as to when the Coptic phase occurred - in fact, that photo may be from his LCC phase, as Spruit had a hand in that and was very focused on the Syriac antecedents of Vilatte - one of the lines he claimed. It may well be that the old photo of George relates to that.


They work very hard at becoming whatever they choose to be at a given moment and try, as hard as possible, to disappear from whatever the prior incarnation was. Their success at doing it would be nearly complete were it not for Father Anthony Nelson's early writing about them and the timely warnings posted in nearly every web forum on a regular basis by folks who have read his paper or seen the periodic postings by folks such as yourself, my friend John/Prodomos from Australia, and several others.

Many years,

Neil

Oops, didn't notice this before. Ah, that's the confusion - the Kali Mandir ashram or temple or whatever it is - is NOT Burke's ashram. His is Atmajyoti Ashram [atmajyoti.org]

Many years,

Neil

I've split these posts from John's thread asking for Icons of St Sharbel and also from the thread asking for alternatives to MI. This thread should be limited to discussing MI. Thanks

Many years,

Neil

No, the Kali Mandir page is the website for the Kali Temple in Laguna Beach California. I don't know how to link -remember I am technologically pretty dumb- but the HTTP is www.kalimandir.org [kalimandir.org]
If you go to the site there is a subsection called "library". The 7th entry is by Abbot George Burke, a pretty chilling description of his encounter with the Goddess of Death. If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, past the blasphemously placed Monastery Icons image of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, there is a photo of the community, wearing white robes. I have no idea what phase this is, but the fellow sitting in the front clearly looks like the image of George Burke in his Coptic phase, which is the first image you get if you google image search "abbot george burke", sans beard. The future Swami is the morbidly obese guy seated to the right rear.
I read one reference to "the late George Burke" so I don't know if he is even alive. Where did you hear that GB was an "iconographer"? I only knew that the images Monastery Icons sells are signed "Brother Simeon", though I guess if Burke was at Holy Transfiguration it would figure.
Do you know, by the way, that the aberrational image maker (and Roman Catholic Franciscan friar) Richard Lentz learned iconography at Holy Transfiguration, when he was Orthodox and known as Seraphim Lentz? Which explains that his technique is so good, while other aberrational image makers images look pretty weird even when they do traditional images.

Hey, Neil, sure is great to be again exploring these religious oddities which so fascinate you and me...

Dan,

I had found the photo and don't disagree that there are resemblences but I think the individual is too young to be George (not sure when that photo was taken, but Kali only dates to about 1998-99, as I remember, and George is getting along in years).

I also saw a reference somewhere to the "late GB" - but can no longer find it or recollect where I read it. I've never been able to find an obit and wonder if the phrasing wasn't metaphorical - as in George no longer being George, but the Swami or whatever.

Until I just read what you wrote, I hadn't considered the prospect that Brother Simeon might be George - not outside the realm of possibility. As to George's iconographic stage, and his time at HT, that was relatively new news to me; I saw it referenced on the blog of someone who was a fan of George, altho not a devotee - should have kept the link, I'll see if I can find it again.

As regards Robert Lentz, I was completely unaware that he had any ties to HT or history with Orthodoxy. The things one learns

Many years,

Neil

Fascinating stuff.

And I agree, Dan. Pretty unsettling...

OK, call me dense - or something. There is a reference to Burke's time at Holy Transfiguration in the opening paragraphs of Father Anthony Nelson's piece on MI - which is probably the first place most of us ever heard of Burke or his organizations.

I just don't recollect reading that the first time around, and am surprised. Since Holy Transfiguration is in the neighborhood, I generally pick up on any news or info about it.

Many years,

Neil

But Neil, the humoungus monkus is even younger looking than the guy in the front, who clearly looks more like the Coptic phase GB. And that the one source described the two of them weighing in at 600 lbs or so? Well, the obese Swami looks like a good 350- 400 pounder all by himself. That would leave George Burke a moderately overweight guy, not morbidly obese.
I think somewhere long ago I saw a picture of Brother Simeon, before I knew anything about the group; I don't think that is a pseudonym for George Burke.

Yes, I was surprised to learn of Lentz' time as an Orthodox novice at HT; he was involved in some sort of schism within the monastery, and I was researching HOCNA when I came across a reference to "Seraphim Lentz", and it was clearly Robert Lentz; he was described as living in Denver at the time of the writing, and doing odd icons. Lentz has had about as many incarnations as the Monastery Icons community; he apparently was married after leaving the monastery, though his wife left him before long. Then he came out as gay, then he returned to the Friars Minor, where he had been before going to Holy Transfiguration...

I have an interesting story relative to "Monastery Icons". A friend of mine, in turn, has a friend who, some years ago, moved out to California from N.J. Not long after getting settled there, he went into a sizeable bookstore. As he was rounding a corner in the store, a book fell down from the top shelf, hitting him in the head. It was a book by Abbot Burke of "Monastery Icons" defending the heretic Pelagius!!!

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Dan,

Take a look at this photo [atmajyoti.org] of the 'big guy' - not that young.

We're likely not going to resolve this one, unless/until someone makes a 'pilgrimage' to the ashram and meets the players. Any takers?

Many years,

Neil

One should be aware that "Kali" is the Hindu "goddess of death".

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father,

Yes, she is and the Abbott/Swami is very taken with her.

Many years,

Neil