www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News EWTN---Byz. Cath. Church

>>> Also the Byzantine Church would not be here if it
wasn't for the schism in 1054.<<<
Explain yourself. Leaving aside the fact that 1054 isn't all that significant a date, the Byzantine Church would still be present in the world, as it IS the Orthodox Church.


The Byzantine-Ruthenian Rite of the Catholic Church would not be in existance today if it wasn't for the schism. That is my understanding.

I will just add two more points and then I will leave it at that, attack me all you wish.

I am trying to learn more of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Rite because that is they Rite of my family. My parents are non-practicing catholics and raised me with no faith formation so I am attempting to learn this on my own.

As I said, this show was just an hour, or less, long. What you wish they would of covered would of taken many, many hours and I doubt it would of been watched by many people.

When I used the word "customs" I also meant Tradition. Tradition is a part of the customs of people. At least that is the way I look at it and I did not mean to sound condescending, but I do not think I sounded that way. I think you were looking for it.

Lighten up a bit, not everyone is out to get you.

David

I think it would be wonderful if a group of Byzantines got together and started their own TV net work that focused on the Byzantine and non Byzantine eastern churches. Or, for a Byzantine Catholic to get on the Ball and go see M. Angelica and ask for a weekly show for Byzantines BY byzantines. It is very easy to sit at your computer and complain the "Latins" don't do it right. Don't wait for us Latins to get it right ,in the last 40 years we can hardly get our own church right. You Byzantines need to get out there and in a positive way do right by yourselves.

XPICTOC BOCKPEC!

Hey folks,

it was just a popularly-oriented TV show, not a lecture series.

Give Father Michael a break, it was easy to see that he was kind of nervous at times, mixing up his words and such. Yes, the historical background was inadequate and misleading. Even if it had been 100% accurate it would have been beyond the grasp of the average RC, whose understanding of church history is understandably quite narrow as relating to the Eastern Churches. I doubt if even 1% of the viewers could recall any details about what was said in the historical part.

I could see it coming halfway through the show that the Elites who hang out here (face it, in our Church those with net access who patronize this discussion group are elites) would be mightily displeased.

But I disagree that Byzantine Catholics wouldn't get anything out of that show. The rank-and-file faithful who support our churches probably learned a decent amount about the symbolism of various ritual and iconography, heard some prayers they would never otherwise hear, and were thrilled that their "rite" got an hour of TV time especially on Mother A.'s network.

In fact, I'd bet a lot of Byzantine Catholics felt quite excited and even "validated" by watching the show. At this point, anything that makes us feel better than the marginalized and eternally oppressed "minority" is worthwhile. If it encourages a few Byzantine Catholics to learn more about their own Tradition, then for us it is a good thing.

>>>The Byzantine-Ruthenian Rite of the Catholic Church would not be in existance today if it wasn't for the schism. That
is my understanding.<<<

You mean there would be no Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church, and that would be a very good thing, if there had not been a schism, the Body of Christ would be whole (the Reformation probably would have been aborted) and the world a very different place. And the Carpatho-Rusyn would still have their own unique useage for celebrating the Byzantine liturgy.

I don't think it is any great thing that there are Eastern Catholic Churches--life would be so much easier if we didn't exist. Without us, the schism would have been healed.

>>>But I disagree that Byzantine Catholics wouldn't get anything out of that show. The rank-and-file faithful who support
our churches probably learned a decent amount about the symbolism of various ritual and iconography, heard some
prayers they would never otherwise hear, and were thrilled that their "rite" got an hour of TV time especially on Mother
A.'s network.<<<

This doesn't disturb or upset you, Rich? What does it say about the level of catechesis in our parishes if what you say is true?

I too was somewhat disappointed in the program until I asked myself the following question: "What very distinctive and concrete objects and concepts would I choose if I were called upon to present the Byzantine Catholic Church in a one hour program whose viewing audience is comprised largely comprised of Roman Catholics unaware that the Byzantine Catholic Church even exists?" After considering the program in this manner I felt better about it. Growing up in Louisville, KY, the only reason I knew of the Byzantine Catholic Church was because my great-grandmother was the daughter of a priest and had emigrated from Galicia. Consequently, my family,s religious traditions diverged, some to the Roman Catholic Church, and some to the Episcopal Church, there being no Slavic Orthodox Church for several hundred miles. My great-grandmother told stories of the hardships endured by those on both sides of the Orthodox-Byzantine divide and how individuals (both clergy and laity) as well as parishes would switch back and forth, somerimes compelled to do so for political and economic reasons. Granted, the ecclesiastical history was over-simplified and presented from a very western point of view, but the lessons I learned from my great-grandmother might be summed up in two phrases: "Judge not lest ye be judged", and "Let him who is without sin (schism?), cast the first stone".

Hey guys,

Before we bash EWTN for their effort, let's remember one thing: they at least tried!

It is easy to sit around and criticize the Latins for not teaching their people about us, but what are WE doing to teach others about us?

Last year I told you guys about contacts that I had made at EWTN. They told me that they wanted to do a SERIES of programs on the Eastern Catholic Churches, and were looking for a knowledgable host. I asked you guys what recommendations you had, and you complained and whined about how bad EWTN is. I contacted numerous priests in our Church, and none of them had the time. The general impression that I got was that everyone was so mad at EWTN that they didn't want to get involved. So I let it drop.

EWTN really WANTS to work with us, and are very willing to work with what we give them. Yes, they are very Latin-centric and know next to nothing about us. But they are willing to learn. If we would only make the effort, they would give us the time.

Anthony

>>>Last year I told you guys about contacts that I had made at EWTN.<<<

If it's any consolation, the Slava Men's Chorus is negotiating with EWTN to broadcast a concert of Carpatho-Rusyn liturgical music from the crypt of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, DC (really good acoustics).

And, of course, there is the upcoming Orientale Lumen IV Conference at CUA, 19-22 June, to which all Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox are cordially invited.

Some of us ARE doing something, which is perhaps why we get rather bent out of shape when we see it done badly.

To all those who had some pretty harsh words for EWTN:

Please remember that as followers of Christ we are never to tear down but always to build up. If you are really that dissatisfied with the programming, why not try writing a respectful letter to Mother voicing your concerns?

As a word of defense- it was because of EWTN that I grew tremendously in my love for God and as a result I am now discerning a religious vocation. EWTN is only trying to do God's will - you would show yourselves to be real Christian brothers by praying for them, not verbally abusing them. Such behavior sheds a horrible light on Byzantine Catholics.

God Bless You all, and please pray for me, as I do for you.

XPNCTOC BOCKPECE!

I didn't see the program, but I'm sure Bob's and Stuart's criticisms are right on the money.

Much of what Al hates about EWTN - traditional habits, etc. - I think is great.

But based on my own encounters with Roman Catholics of that kind, I can agree the 'Latin-centrism' and the condescension are very real problems.

However, many other Latin traditionalists - knowledgeable ones - are sincere, inspired by the East, in fact, and want to work with it, not against it. Don't let Satan have the last laugh by letting him turn us against each other while the rest of the world goes to hell.

http://oldworldrus.com

As I stated in my initial post on this subject, what I was posting was a reply regarding the program to a Roman Catholic friend and former co-worker.
I have been forwarding to him the replies and he is amazed & impressed at the seriousness that we Eastern Christians (both Orthodox & Byzantine Rite) take our religion.

Anyway, he asked me to post his reply regarding the program on your list. So here goes. Hope I haven't broken any rules.

Bob

---------------------------------------------

I'm asking an Orthodox friend to post this on your discussion board
regarding the EWTN show on the Byzantine Catholics. The same friend
has been forwarding me some of your posted comments.


I suppose I'm typical of the average Roman Catholic in this country.
For my sins, I know very little about the Orthodox Religion, and less
about the Byzantine Rite Catholics. In addition, I would not have
watched the show on the Byzantine Rite on ETWN's "Living His Life
Abundantly" had I not been told about it by an Orthodox friend. I did
find the show interesting, and for somebody with my level of knowledge
on the subject, informative. I learned something about the Byzantine
Rite and the priest's vestments etc, and its association with the
Roman Catholic Church. Subsequently I've been told about its
oppression by the American Roman Catholic bishops in this country in
the 19th, and 20th centuries. I have also been told, and seen in your
discussions, that there were some historical inaccuracies in what was
presented. However, this show has also prompted me to try and find out
more about the Orthodox Churches not associated with Rome. So from
that standpoint the show can be seen as beneficial.

I agree with the comments of some of your writers that it would have
been interesting to see something more on the Liturgy etc. However,
what I'm writing about is the seemingly (and unseemly) unquestioned
acceptance that all of you (Orthodox) have with what you see/hear on
ETWN. One writer noted that the show "Living His Life Abundantly" was
an "apostolate" (I believe that's what he called it) of the Catholic
Church. I am appalled to think that anyone outside the very narrow,
fundamentalist (not the Biblical one), right-wing element of the US
Catholic Church could think that anyone on ETWN speaks for the Church
in this country. It certainly doesn't speak for the majority of
Catholics like myself who accept the teachings of Vatican II.
Recently, I heard ETWN described as follows by a fairly conservative
parish priest in my area. He was responding to a question by one of
his parishioners on the "orthodoxy" of what she heard on the ETWN talk
shows. He said: "Mother Angelica and the people on ETWN's talk shows
are first and foremost TV personalities, so you must question anything
they say. While much of what is presented on ETWN is worthwhile, a lot
of the talk-show discussions have an agenda behind them that's not
necessarily in step with the spirit of Vatican II". While these
comments may seem mild; however, coming from a priest who holds some
very conservative views, this was in fact a fairly strong condemnation
of ETWN. He also went on to say that the Catholic bishops missed a
golden opportunity in the 1980s (when it was economically feasible) to
set up their own "controllable" TV station. I should add that the same
could be said for the Orthodox bishops.

So, my dear Orthodox Sisters and Brothers, please don't get so worked
up about anything you encounter on the agenda-based talk shows on
ETWN, and in particular the stupid questions asked by the rather
undereducated hostess (I'm sure she would prefer the non-feminist
title) of the show "Living His Life Abundantly".

Sincerely
John

A response to Al

The prostrations at the consecration on the ewtn Mass is a very old Latin and i think Franciscan custom, done to venerate and Adore Christ, who had just become present on the Altar.

As to EWTN being "Rome centric", you are correct they are. That is beacuse they are Roman. If they were a group of religious from the Eastern church you could expect them to be "Byzantium centric", could you not?

[This message has been edited by Khaled (edited 05-28-2000).]

Regarding the prostrations @ the EWTN Telemass, I realize they are done for the purpose of adoration. My point was that it is an innovation on the part of the monastery that is NOT found in the rubrics of the mass.

It is simply not called for in the way the Latin mass is to be celebrated. Years of attending a Roman Catholic parish with family and having read the Sacremmentary tell me this.

If a Roman priest condones the holding of hands during the Our Father etc., it is always put down my Mother as being unorthodox and usurping the authority of the church. Have you ever watched "Mother Angelica Live?" She is a great woman, but she can't see the forest for the trees.

Having been fortunate enough to have lived close to 2 orders of Franciscans and frequenting their mass, it must be a very old Franciscan custom, as I have never seeen it observed. They either stand or sit if they are unable to kneel. They rest kneel.

Regarding the Roman centrism of EWTN, they should be CATHOLIC first--ROMAN second, as should we all.

Eastern Cathlic religious would probably not be too terribly Byzantine-centric, as they do not have allegiance to the Ecumentical Patriarch in Istanbul.

EWTN's show was the first exposure I had to the Byzantine Rite of the Catholic Church. I must say, in my innocence I found the program remarkable. I hope EWTN promotes more of these programs. I look forward to learning more about your rich tradition.

Dominic,

I'm glad that you benefited from the program. My grandmother, who is Roman Catholic and has had little exposure to the Christian East, watched the show and enjoyed it too. She is now more interested in Byzantine Catholicism.

While the show was in no way perfect, it accomplished a lot if it got people like thinking about us!

God bless,

Anthony