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I can't begin to say how truly depressing I find this speech

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4812572/12841013

*Deep sigh*

Break out the rakia - this is going to be unpleasant, me thinks.

Does anyone know what topics each Church has been given in regards to the preliminary meetings coming up later this year? Or is it an 'all you can eat' buffet?

I am not one for keeping up with everything that is going on in Orthodoxy but isn't there some discussion of the OCA and non-OCA Romanians coming together or some of the OCA Bulgarian parished thinking about going back under Metropolitan Joseph of the BOC? Could this also play a part in Metropolitan Jonah's comments?

At any rate, not the most appropriate topic to be coming up during Lent. All we can ask for is prayer for everyone....

Andrew,

Would you be willing to elaborate?

God bless,

Fr. Deacon Daniel

Yes, it's a speech attacking the Ecumenical Patriarchate given on the Sunday of Orthodoxy at St. Seraphim's Cathedral in Dallas.

EEK! I am still listening, but me thinks he speaks a bit disrespectfully about the Ecumenical Patriarch...

Also, the comment 'We don't want a Pope, or none of us would be here'...Is that what Orthodoxy is about: not being under the Pope?!?

What about the ethos of the Eastern Orthodox religion...does that play a secondary role to not being 'under the Pope', or 'wanting a Pope'...

With all due respect, the sermon started off on a few polemic tones which can be passion rousing...

I am sorry. This is not material for Lent. I despise Church politics....

I am very disappointed.,I am now hearing these unchristian epithets:

"imperial idealogy", "foreign empire", "foreign despots"...Lord have mercy!!!!

I am turning this off right now!

Alice

Dear Father

As far as I can make it out, the Chief Secretary to the Ecumenical Patriarch visited the US where he made a speech which was widely seen by some as attaking Metropolitans Jonah and Philip and of promoting the papal pretensions of the EP. For others, it wasn't like that but a critique of how American Orthodoxy works.

Metropolitan Jonah's speech is, I believe in response to that, and he is effectively saying: Foreign Patriarchs, keep out of the US. I guess it is an interesting dichotomy - the history of freedom from despots in the US versus how the Church operates?

Please, let's stop using the unchristian epithet of the paraecclesial and unchristian behaving Orthodox Christian Laity group (which the Metropolitan sounds alot like in this speech): 'foreign despots'...It is offensive. Shame on him...Lord have mercy.

Alice

Alice,

I agree. I'm still listening.

He is making SOME good points - Orthodoxy is not about being part of a particular ethnic group. That said, of course we should always deeply love and respect what Diak refers to as the "root culture" of each particular Church, while still extending the mission of the Church to all persons in a particular locale irrespective of ethnic heritage.

It is clear that there is no easy solution and the temptations to phyletism will always be a battle for the Eastern Churches, whether Orthodox or Catholic.

But the provocative language of "revolution!" needs to be dropped, IMHO. It reduces the question of subsidiarity to a discussion of power and control. Perhaps things have descended to that level already. I pray that it gets resolved for the peace of the Churches and for the unity of all....

American Orthodox Institute [aoiusa.org]

I found this website a few months ago. I read some of the articles by Met. Philip. I never realized at the time where things might be headed with efforts towards Orthodox unity here in the US...

The problem is the assumption is that if you're own the other side, you don't believe this. That is just one of many of a number of unproven assumptions, inaccuracies, stereotypes and generalizations in the speech.

Yes - that is true. It is an either/or proposition in his speech.

Metropolitan Phillip has had the odd habit of calling for unity, while at the same time saying rather insulting things about those he is calling to unity.

Well said.

I have to agree with Alice. This is not quite Lenten fare. It seems to me that his Beatitude manages to offend or antagonize practically everybody. As a Catholic, for example, I rather dislike the derogatory way in which his Beatitude refers to the papacy.

That said, Metropolitan Jonah makes some important points (and I paraphrase):

• The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is always local (as well as universal) and it consists of the presbyters, deacons and faithful in each place gathered around their bishop.
• The American Orthodox Church should not have to depend canonically on Constantinople or some other foreign patriarchate, but should be led by its own synod of bishops.
• Church membership should not be based on birth or ethnicity, but on baptism and faith.
• There is a need for a powerful, united Orthodox Christian witness in America today.
• To witness effectively in America, the Church must pay attention to and understand American culture.

I do appreciate his Beatitude's speaking his mind quite openly like this. It is something we don't see too often. Still, I don't think the best way to achieve these aims is to offend and antagonize others.

I don't think it is the papacy per se to which Metropolitan Jonah objects, but to "papism", or a certain model of universal primacy that is grounded in submission and subordination, rather than true communion in the Holy Spirit.

As for Orthodoxy transcending ethnicity, the words of Kyr Kallistos of Deiocleia are apposite: "The day is coming soon when nobody will be an Orthodox Christian who does not consciously choose to be one". By that, he meant the bonds of ethnicity are no longer sufficient to hold people to the Church in an era when people can move rapidly from place to place and have many options regarding what faith, if any, they will follow.

On the Orthodox witness to America, one should beware of getting too close to the popular culture, lest one be captured by it. The "otherness" of Orthodoxy is one of its attractions, and to abandon that wholesale in order better to fit in will only convert Orthodoxy to a slightly more exotic form of evangelicalism.