www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Speech of Metropolitan Jonah

I agree, but I have never seen them in any church I have been to.


Okay...in the following statement:




Hmmm...I find your tone somewhat insulting, but whatever. If I were Russian, I would definitely want Kyrill as my 'foreign' Patriarch. Why not? As far as the EP having 'papal fantasies', well, what is wrong with the Pope?!?

Be well,
Alice

Please, folks! It is the end of the Great Fast for those on the Orthodox Calendar and Holy Week for those of us on the Gregorian Calendar. This thread is lacking the charity expected of those who follow Christ. Please try harder to be charitable.

Cosmos, please don't worry. I doubt anyone is trying to censor you in particular. I for one do find your posts interesting.

Of course money speaks. But, again, I do think a single, united, autocephalous American Orthodox Church would probably be extremely generous to its mother churches in "the old world."

Thank you!!!

I wrote this prayer some years ago when the level of charity among us seemed to wane. I offer it again as a repeat in the hopes that as we all move into the Great and Holy Week, whether this week or next, we take the time to really look into ourselves. If we have no charity, no love, no loving-kindness, we have nothing, as St. Paul's Epistle to the Corinthinans 13:1-8 reminds us. I think it applies not only to the unity of Christians but also to our call to be charitable to each and every other person we meet regardless of their religious affiliation or lack thereof.

In Christ,

BOB

Prayer for the Unity of Christians

(Introductory Meditation) Our Lord Jesus Christ prayed that all of us might be one as He and the Father are one. And here we are. Allow me to propose that we begin to pray for the unity of the Faith and the unity of the faithful with particular fervor and not stop from this day onward. Let's pray that the Lord Jesus will take over this work since we cannot seem to get it right by ourselves.

Lord Jesus, You came to earth to break the bonds of death for us and to show us the Way to the Kingdom where You and the Father dwell. Send the Holy Spirit to us and let us see that Your Kingdom is within each of us to the extent that we let the Spirit in. Help each of us to see that there are others that You have called who are not of the particular flock that You have placed us in, but that they are our brothers and sisters nonetheless because they are Your followers just as we are. Grant us the grace to let the Holy Spirit heal the terrible wounds that we have all inflicted on Your Holy Body, the Church, just as we have inflicted the wounds on Your Physical Body by our sin, though we may be centuries in time removed from the time You suffered. Help us all to rise from the tombs we have constructed around ourselves that seal us in with our own self-righteousness and the Holy Spirit and our brothers and sisters out. Expand our vision and make our love so grow that we will see each one who calls himself your servant as our brother or sister rather than "one of them" that is "separate from us." Show us Your kindness and have patience with us and with the mess we have all made.

Lord, may each of us who calls himself Your servant take time today to remember that there are others You have placed in this world with theological and doctrinal positions that are directly opposite to what You have given us in the place where You placed us. Let us with Your Grace learn that these may also call themselves Your servants. Let us remember that we have no corner on You, Your Grace, Your Great Mercy, or Your Promises. Let us remember that we do have the same command from You, that we love one another as You have loved us. Help us to remember that Your commandment of love does not release us from living and preaching Your Good News as we have received it, but let us also remember that our brother who may be opposite to us has also been given the Good News even though we may not recognize it in the form he has received it. Shine into all hearts and let each one speak the Truth as he has received it and be charitable to others in listening to them speak. Grant to us the day when the Holy Spirit will cut through the Tower of Babel we have erected in Your Vineyard by our own sin. Let each one remember that his brother does not hold his understanding of the Truth as a heretic, but rather as one who has been placed in another place than oneself.

Grant all these things, Lord, so that the healing of Your Holy Body, the Church, may come quickly.

Through the prayers of the All-holy, Ever-Virgin, Mother of God, Mary, who is also our mother by Your gracious Gift from the Cross, through the intercessions of the holy apostles, saints, martyrs, and of all the blessed spirits You have gathered into Your Kingdom from every age, land, and culture, through the intercessions of the holy Choirs of angels who have one will in doing the Will of the Father, O Savior, save us all. AMEN.

I think you are definitely on the right track here. But then again we are both Catholics so it is not too surprising that we should agree on essentials

Still, I think that no one can seriously deny the need for primacy in the Church. The question is not whether there should be such a ministry, but how it should be exercised. And lest anyone should think we are now off topic, this is truly relevant to the position of Orthodoxy in America. The choice is not between autocephaly or Constantinople (which some might see as a "poor subsitute for Rome"), but between the present situation and a true effort to discover the role of the Petrine ministry, because if there is a need for a regional primacy, there is also a need for a universal primacy. And here primacy should not be understood as the power to lord it over everyone else, but as the grace to serve everyone else. That, after all, is the true meaning of the washing of feet at the Mass of the Lord's Supper on Maundy Thursday, which we are now rapidly approaching.

"But then again we are both Catholics . . . "

Thanks. Not everyone agrees with you on that.

deleted

Alexis

"deleted

Alexis"

Don't be shy, Alexis. Let it all hang out.

By the way, how does the edit function work?

Regarding the Steelers, everyone knows that the Steelers Nation is independent of the US. The church of the Steelers Nation will be granted autocephaly and have a patriarch-catholicos responsible for the care of its members who find themselves outside of its traditional canonical territory. We assume that Troy will be patriarch, provided his wife retires to a monastery. His vesture will be a black riassa and a gold koukoul.

Dave

StuartK,

You can edit or delete your post for 20 minutes after you have submitted it. Just click "edit," make your changes, and click "change post."

Chtec,

I should think there would be a Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of the Steelers Nation, whoever they may be. (Armenians, no offence intended )

Alexis,

I am glad you deleted your last post. I'm sure it was based on some misunderstanding

FWIW, Metropolitan Jonah is responding to Archimandrite Elpidophoros Lambriniadis who delivered a paper to the Holy Cross seminarians on March 16th in which the Archimandrite speaks to points made by then Archimandrite (now Metropolitan) Jonah at the St. Vladimir’s summer institute. I think one needs to look at the context of the original remarks and note that Archimandrite Jonah was not Metropolitan at that time. I think people are making way too much of all of this.

I hate to tell you, but right or wrong the choice is between being autocephalous and Constantinople. Centralization is definitely not going to be accepted. It is clear from what Metropolitan Jonah said that no Pope of any sort is desired, and Papacy is a bad word.

Even within the autocephalous framework, there is a desire for a more diffused system of authority. Ebed Melech mentioned the AOI earlier, and you can read their model of North American unity here:

http://www.aoiusa.org/main/page.php?page_id=127

One thing they believe is the bishops themselves should be nominated and elected by the laity. It is of course already a widely accepted practice to have lay presidency at the parish level.