www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Catholic church will continue to shrink if faith is not followed

Numbers mean nothing, and statistics about religion and sex are notoriously unreliable.

Our Churches are not like those of Europe. Most of the loss here comes from inner city parishes closing because the population has moved.
Each sunday we have packed churches people standing at the back and out the doors, added to that that there are 10 Masses in this parish alone and two other parishes each with 5 Masses and a mission Church.
The same can be said of Texas. I had 75 conversions of protestants coming into the Church from one small group of only 350 people. The Diocese, a small one, had 4,000 that went on for the 3 years that I was there.
Each has a vibrant youth and young adult group and about 26 other groups you may want to join. Scripture Studies, History, you can even take OT Hebrew and we plan to add a course in NT Greek in the near future along with a men' and women's spirituality group and one for newly married couple and those with young children. The parking lot is full until 10 pm every night except Saturday and Sunday.
There is adoration around the clock from Sunday to Tuesday and we are soon looking to cover the other nights of the week.
Plus we have a very committed pro life group.
Please take a look at our parish website www.stvincentferrer.org [stvincentferrer.org]

Stephanos I

That same article mentions the emptying of the seminaries.
Not so, I was on a Diocesan Project for the seminaries and the seminary that I visited was full.
Our diocese has 38 seminarians and is doing well.
Seminary attendance is up from the past, those people who wrote that article are taking their information from the past.
Stephanos I

Stephanos:

It is no secret that some US dioceses and archdioceses have booming vocations and full churches, especially in the South and Midwest. However, this does not apparently extend to the whole US Church, as per the statistics of CARA.

I've received letters from some friends in the East Coast describing to me the closure of hundreds of parishes, dioceses with just one or two ordinations per year, and even dioceses desperately looking for seminarians and priests from Africa, Poland, and Asia.

The situation in the US -- even in the East Coast -- is far better than what is happening in France, Benelux, and Quebec. These comprise the "ground zero" of the secularist assault on Catholicism.

In France, church attendance has collapsed to just 5% of Catholics going to Mass every Sunday, and there are only about 700 seminarians for 95 dioceses and the many religious orders. From nearly 50,000 priests and 150,000 religious in 1965 there are only about 20,000 priests and 48,000 religious today (mostly old and near retirement). Half of all parishes have been closed.

In the Netherlands -- the worst hit -- where there were 12,000+ priests prior to 1965 (8,000 in the country itself), there are now only about 1,000 active priests, mostly aged and near retirement. Church attendance is about 3-4% of the Catholic population

Belgium' Church is reputed to be even more liberal than the Netherlands, and church attendance has collapsed to about 5%.

The "Benedictine renewal" that has strongly revivified certain sectors of the Church in the USA, Italy and Spain has been all but blocked from spreading north of the Alps.

In my opinion, there are no "cafeteria Catholics"; they are Protestants since they, like the so called "reformers" are protesting against whatever they think they cannot accept from the teaching authority of the Church. We now have many Luthers.

Father, bless !

My best knowledge is regarding Catholic demographics in the U.S.

I know that there is a large shift in population in the U.S. from the Northeast and the Midwest to the Southeast and to the West. That plus immigration from Latin America often means booming parishes in the West and in the Southeast.

But, according to the 2008 CARA study, only 20% of Catholics nationwide in the U.S. attend Mass every Sunday. When people who attend Mass less frequently are included, the CARA study concluded that about 31% of Catholics (31.4%, to be exact) are attending on any given Sunday. (See page 20 of the report at http://cara.georgetown.edu/sacramentsreport.pdf . )

Also, according to the 2009 ARIS report, the Northeastern United States lost a million Catholics since 1990 while (1) the number of Catholics has shot up in the Southeast and the West and (2) the overall Catholic percentage of the U.S. population has held steady at about 25%. (See a summary at EWTN at http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=94176 .)

Hence, as reported in the 2008 PEW Center's study, it appears that the Catholic population in the U.S. is both shrinking and growing. According to that study, about 10% of Americans are former Catholics. As for those people who are currently Catholic, some (2.6% of all Americans) are converts. But, many American Catholics are immigrants because of the large number of immigrants from historically Catholic countries. Thus the Catholic population in the U.S. is holding steady: mostly because of immigration, partially by conversion. (Please see the Pew Center study at http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf . Please see especially paragraph one on page 6 and paragraph 3 of page 7.)


Based upon those three studies, the following seems to be happening in the U.S.:
-- the Catholic population in the U.S. is overall holding steady at about 25% of the population.
-- the Catholic population in the Northeast has shrunk dramatically; the Catholic population in the Midwest has shrunk somewhat; and the Catholic population in the Southeast and the West has grown dramatically.
-- many people in America (10% of the population) have left the Catholic Church.
-- but those losses have been balanced by Catholic immigrants (mostly) and converts (somewhat).

The main competitors are secularism and Evangelicalism. When I look at the above trends plus what is happening in the rest of the world (abysmal Mass attendance in Western Europe, growing numbers of conversations to Charismatic and Evangelical Protestantism in the Third World), and I would conclude that Catholicism is shrinking overall in the world. And, it could shrink more in the U.S. as well. And, again, the competitors are secularism and Evangelicalism.

Hence, I am not saying that "the sky is falling."

However, it seems that there is a real problem: the Catholic Church is losing people to secularism and Evangelicalism.

And to "bring it on home," so to speak, your church is blessed with large numbers of active Catholics, but my church here in the Midwest is declining while the Evangelicals are growing.

The solution, in my personal opinion, is a combination of:
-- better catechesis,
-- more outreach for more participation in spiritual practices (prayer, sacraments, and devotions),
-- more explicit recruiting for the priesthood and the religious life,
-- and better living the Life in Christ.

But, that is just my opinion; and I would be interested in learning yours.

-- John

Allen,

Shall we subject all your beliefs to careful doctrinal scrutiny to discover in which cafeteria you choose to dine?

Regardless of the Lutheran population, is there an adequate supply of luthiers?

Fr. Serge

Staurt,

Just refer to the Traditional church teachings and you'll have a 5 star establishment to dine in (you might find Allen at a nearby table too).


Monomakh

John:

I beg to disagree with your conclusion that the Catholic Church in the U.S. is "shrinking." Further, I disagree with your conclusion that the Catholic Church throughout the world is, also, "shrinking."

The various recent studies only found that there is a demographic shift in the Cathlic population from the Northeast to the Southwest as compared to other confessions. None said the total Catholic population in the U.S. decreased or is in decline. In fact, as you observed, the Catholic population remains "steady" at around 25% of the current total U.S. population of around 300 million. By remaining steady as a quantifiable percentage of the U.S. total population (which increased at the last census count in 2000), it means that the Catholic population kept pace and increased with the U.S. total population as the latter increased in the past decade.

This analogy applies to the world's Catholic population as it remains steady as a percentage of the increasing total population of the world!

What seems to be conveyed by these recent studies/polls is the "shrinking" number of active Cathlics in the U.S. and, perhaps, worldwide.

I say seemingly because the polls and studies thus far undertaken are wanting in the depth and breadth of research data.

It would be interesting to see the data and results in 2010 when the Glenmary Research Institute comes with its own 10-year cyclical studies of religious demograhics in the U.S. It is more extensive as the group goes county to county throughout the U.S.

Amado

Amado,

Thank you for actually replying to my post; so far, you are the only one.

I see your points:
--Catholics have remained a consistent percentage of the U.S. population, at about 25%.
--Meanwhile the U.S. population has grown over time.
--Therefore, the number of Catholics has not shrunk; instead, it has grown so as to keep pace with overall growth of the American population and to keep a constant percentage of the population.

Nevertheless, I respectfully disagree with the interpretation of those points.

The three studies I cited indicate two significant trends.

-- The population of Catholics in America is both losing members (now especially in the northeast) and is gaining members (some by conversion, most by immigration).

-- Simultaneously, as you acknowledged, the national practice of the Catholic faith is declining, and that is most clearly evidenced by the declining national percentage of people attending Sunday Mass.

Now here is my concern: Not practicing one's faith can easily become a slippery slope to losing one's faith. The result can be either conversion to another religion (like Evangelical Christianity) or no religion (like secularism). Hence, American Catholicism may well be shrinking; or, at least, it could likely shrink if these trends continue.

So (and I'm asking in general, not just to you): how can the Catholic Church respond to its two biggest competitors these days: Evangelicalism and secularism?

-- John

Actually you are right, the Catholic Church throught the world is growing, at least by 200 million in the last ten years.
Stephanos I